ROBERT CHAMBER Solution?

Hey, a guy's gotta cover his nut.

--
*
/?\
/___\
-O=O-
^
AS & His Magic Hat

A conclusion is simply the place
where you decided to stop thinking.
"Numismatist" wrote in message
...
Just for giggles again tonight was watching our favorite TV coins guys
selling
2004 Silver Proof Sets for $89.95 plus $4.95 shipping. Just a little over
2
times what you can order them for from the mint. OK, do you buy them for
$37.95
from the mint, or $90+ from HSN? You can get 2 silver proof sets and 1
mint set
from the mint for the price of one from Mr Chambers. Let me think about
this....

Hey, a guy's gotta cover his nut.

I have no problem with someone making a profit. I like to buy at 10 back of bid
and sell at ask, of course it doesn't always work out exactly that way, but it
does sometimes. But at over 225% + markup?

Subject: ROBERT CHAMBER Solution?
From: (Numismatist)
Date: 9/7/2004 12:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Just for giggles again tonight was watching our favorite TV coins guys
selling
2004 Silver Proof Sets for $89.95 plus $4.95 shipping. Just a little over 2
times what you can order them for from the mint. OK, do you buy them for
$37.95
from the mint, or $90+ from HSN? You can get 2 silver proof sets and 1 mint
set
from the mint for the price of one from Mr Chambers. Let me think about
this....







Please, it is SHOP AT HOME not HOME SHOPPING NETWORK. Steve

Chambers is a likable LIAR. There's just no other way to describe it.
Honest values and the right to profit have nothing to do with
complicity in a shameless sham.

He'll tell the viewer never to buy as investments and yet sells his
"products" as investments.

He insists they don't "sift through" coins and yet can be absolutely
certain of what you're getting.

He'll call our old money [confiscated by the Fed] "hoards" and tout it
by its silver content, but he's actually selling off numismatic trash
by the pound at many times face value.

He talks about finite supplies, but yet they're never without the
finite supplies.

He often refers to jammed phone lines that aren't jammed and
"sell-outs" that re-appear in re-runs.

He pushes historical myths as facts and even tailors it to suit the
mint garbage they sell.

He boast about NGC assurances as the final word in quality and
guarantees, but why do collectors need an NGC, a PCGS, a PNG, or an
ANA to begin with? Well, for the same reason they need Julie Tello's
to entice buyers of ornaments that have nothing to do with a "hobby".

What really amuses me though, is the vignette Paul does where he
extols the virtues of NGC, while the backdrop depicts a pile of raw
Morgan dollars stacked up on top of each other and a "prized" grader
inspecting one with BARE hands. "They [coins] encapsulate history, and
that's what I love." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Vic Canova wrote:

Chambers is a likable LIAR. There's just no other way to describe it.
Honest values and the right to profit have nothing to do with
complicity in a shameless sham.

He'll tell the viewer never to buy as investments and yet sells his
"products" as investments.

He insists they don't "sift through" coins and yet can be absolutely
certain of what you're getting.

He'll call our old money [confiscated by the Fed] "hoards" and tout it
by its silver content, but he's actually selling off numismatic trash
by the pound at many times face value.

He talks about finite supplies, but yet they're never without the
finite supplies.

He often refers to jammed phone lines that aren't jammed and
"sell-outs" that re-appear in re-runs.

He pushes historical myths as facts and even tailors it to suit the
mint garbage they sell.

He boast about NGC assurances as the final word in quality and
guarantees, but why do collectors need an NGC, a PCGS, a PNG, or an
ANA to begin with? Well, for the same reason they need Julie Tello's
to entice buyers of ornaments that have nothing to do with a "hobby".

What really amuses me though, is the vignette Paul does where he
extols the virtues of NGC, while the backdrop depicts a pile of raw
Morgan dollars stacked up on top of each other and a "prized" grader
inspecting one with BARE hands. "They [coins] encapsulate history, and
that's what I love." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Suffering from jet lag, I watched part of last night's threesome for
Coin Vault, beginning with the junk silver pound and ten pound offers.

If every dealer could get that much above melt, fees for bourse space
could rise and the host club's profits would triple. ;-)

It does have a small educational value, if taken with a large can of
Morton's. While pawing through a 'Reno Hoard', one of the strong-armed
shills pointed out a 'rare' 1934 Liberty Walking Half Dollar. I should
send Bigg Fredd a thank you note for selling me 1934 Liberty Walking
Half Dollars at melt 2 years ago, I guess. Or send one to Chuck D'Ambra
for selling me some for less than $5 apiece. ;-/

Alan
'anything I own three of cannot be rare'

Coin Vault is one of the most entertaining shows on cable TV. I watch it
whenever I can because I love this hobby. No knowledgeable collector would BUY
off the show. All the people here who comment negatively are talking to the
choir. Nobody who BUYS from Robert & Company at SAH comes to this newsgroup.
Think about how many products and ads rip you off all the time. We are
knowledgeable about coins so we don't overpay. Are YOU knowledgeable about
replacement automoblie tires? Do you overpay when you need them? It's all about
educating yourself. Don't feel sorry for people who overpay. They will learn
over time. This TV show does bring some people into the hobby. True, some will
leave if they get ripped off by Robert, but others will learn and stay. Steve

SJCOHEN730 wrote:

Coin Vault is one of the most entertaining shows on cable TV. I watch it
whenever I can because I love this hobby. No knowledgeable collector would BUY
off the show. All the people here who comment negatively are talking to the
choir. Nobody who BUYS from Robert & Company at SAH comes to this newsgroup.
Think about how many products and ads rip you off all the time. We are
knowledgeable about coins so we don't overpay. Are YOU knowledgeable about
replacement automoblie tires? Do you overpay when you need them? It's all about
educating yourself. Don't feel sorry for people who overpay. They will learn
over time. This TV show does bring some people into the hobby. True, some will
leave if they get ripped off by Robert, but others will learn and stay. Steve

The only real misinformation seems to be about current value (our price
is a bargain! well, yes, for us) and scarcity. I swore off Coin Vault
for four months in late 2003 when they were raving about the scarcity of
1964 Kennedy Half Dollars. ;-/ LQQK! RARE! 1964 Kennedy Halves! Most
were melted, few survived, you won't find this is circulation! which
should have translated as some, most and yes, you can.

But there are lessons for the uninitiated. ;-)

1. Condition of preservation is a big impactor on value.
2. There is a grading scale in play for collectible coins.
3. Proof sets and other 'mint-direct' products were once uncommon but
are now mass-produced.
4. Proof-like and Deep Cameo are descriptive terms.
5. US Coins used to be silver.

Once those five facts have sunk in, the novice viewer is better educated
than 95% of the public.

But for the Great Unwashed Masses, if stretch payments of 3 x $100 seems
a bargain for $101 of coin silver...well, people bought Enron stock,
too.

Alan
'past performance is no guarantee of future earnings'

Please, it is SHOP AT HOME not HOME SHOPPING NETWORK.

My mistake. Can't say that I watch it often enough to make the distinction.

(SJCOHEN730) wrote in message ...
Coin Vault is one of the most entertaining shows on cable TV. I watch it
whenever I can because I love this hobby. No knowledgeable collector would BUY
off the show. All the people here who comment negatively are talking to the
choir. Nobody who BUYS from Robert & Company at SAH comes to this newsgroup.
Think about how many products and ads rip you off all the time. We are
knowledgeable about coins so we don't overpay. Are YOU knowledgeable about
replacement automoblie tires? Do you overpay when you need them? It's all about
educating yourself. Don't feel sorry for people who overpay. They will learn
over time. This TV show does bring some people into the hobby. True, some will
leave if they get ripped off by Robert, but others will learn and stay. Steve

When I read the topic of this thread, I wondered if we might debate
the FINAL SOLUTION for Robert Chambers. Is a gas chamber too severe
for Robert Chambers? Perhaps some consumer advocate from the ANA or
PNG could simply dump the contents of a chamber pot over his head.

Knowledgeable collectors watching this show for giggles remind me of
innocent but knowing Germans citizens smiling when they see the line
of Jews being escorted to the gas chambers, being told that they are
only entering a shower. (OK, Auschwitz, Birkenwald, etc. were never
televised)

Yes, I have a perverse, but historical enjoyment for infamous
hucksters such as P.T. Barnum, Josh Tatum, and the founders of Amway.
I collect U.S. commemoratives that were issued with the feeblest of
excuses (Cincinnati, Washington/Carver, etc.) I enjoy twisted logic,
as espoused by Lewis Carroll, Richard Nixon or even Bill Clinton.
However, none of these folks had much of an effect on our hobby)other
than authorizing the DSA Morgan sale or signing a couple of new design
proposals). I love this hobby, too, but give credit for its
remaining popularity more to Teddy Roosevelt and bullion markets than
to twisted logicians.

I prefer to watch low-budget ads of used car dealers on TV. Their
advertising also brings buyers into their lots. However, buyers drawn
in to a bad used car dealer aren't too likely to stop shopping for
automobiles for the rest of their lives , unlike SAH coin buyers once
they realize they've been snookered by a sales pitch and well-crafted
misrepresentations. Also, Mr. Chambers has higher overhead to pay
than the likes of Junior Samples.

I don't feel sorry for someone who overpays for a needed car repair or
tires. If they feel they were stung too badly they will research the
market the next time they have to pay for such a repair. There is a
difference between consumers of automobile parts/repairs and buyers of
coins, though. Collectible coins are not a necessary expense for
daily life. Those stung by an outrageous car repair bill are likely
to find an honest mechanic the next time around. Those who overpaid
for coins are likely to think that the first honest coin dealer
delivering the bad news of their Coin Vault purchases' resale value is
a crook. The second messenger may be considered a crook as well, How
much bad news does it take to convince the general public that we are
not a hobby of crooks out to siphon their disposable income?

I admit that the Coin Vault is not the only marketer of overpriced
coins who repel newbies from enjoying our hobby. There are many
regular advertisers in general circulation print publications, and
even a few regular advertisers in coin publications who do the same.
Some eBay PowerSellers, and a few third-tier grading services are just
as effective in driving away would-be collectors from our hobby.
Still, I focus on the coin huckster in the title of this thread
because he is so visible.

Collectors who stick with the hobby have a few stories about how they
were burned on a couple of deals, and learned the hard way. Most of
us started by collecting interesting coins from circulation, and
learned from fellow collectors or a dealer who took us under his wing.
Are we to believe that Robert Chambers is promoting our hobby because
much of the public enjoys learning the hard way? This strategy might
work for Littleton Coins and Joel Rettew who are perpetually in good
standing with the ANA, but Chambers' show is much more visible, and
hence postworthy.

Can anyone postulate as to what percentage of coin buyers burned early
on will learn the hard way and come back for more from smaller, honest
competitors for their disposable income?

(SJCOHEN730) wrote in
:

Coin Vault is one of the most entertaining shows on cable TV. I watch
it whenever I can because I love this hobby. No knowledgeable
collector would BUY off the show. All the people here who comment
negatively are talking to the choir. Nobody who BUYS from Robert &
Company at SAH comes to this newsgroup. Think about how many products
and ads rip you off all the time. We are knowledgeable about coins so
we don't overpay. Are YOU knowledgeable about replacement automoblie
tires? Do you overpay when you need them? It's all about educating
yourself. Don't feel sorry for people who overpay. They will learn
over time. This TV show does bring some people into the hobby. True,
some will leave if they get ripped off by Robert, but others will
learn and stay. Steve


i've come to enjoy watching the coin vault. julie tello holds no interest
for me so i have to watch the show. the show has health benefits: a good
laugh is good for you, rolling your eyes is good exercize for them , and
reaching for the redbook gets those muscles working. see?

besides...i love seeing all those morgans, walking liberty halves, and
peace dollars....

i do wish that they'd get better looking guys on there...we lady coin
collectors like eye candy, too!!!!



anita