Numismatist on owning counterfeits

Nick Knight wrote:
Usually, 2 people (sometimes 3)
talking amongst themselves about nothing coin related. That's what email is
for.

This is another post that hits the nail right on the head. The
chitchatters get a response or two from other chitchatters, and it
becomes positive reinforcement, causing the chitchat to grow at the
expense of on-topic discussion, putting off other people. This again
isn't to say that people should never digress. It's a matter of balance.
I don't think most people regard chitchat as the "glue" that holds
everything together in an online discussion group. That's, bluntly,
nonsense. The glue in this discussion group, the common ground, is love
of coins.

Most people will put up with some tedious chitchat, and sometimes leave
their own (though your own chitchat is never tedious g), to get at the
nuggets of relevant discussion. On the other hand, some of the comments
that people leave about their lives and activities and likes and
dislikes and so on ... chitchat ... can be interesting. Again, it's
about balance. When the nuggets of on-topic talk become too few and far
between, people leave ... and many have. Again, people leave for other
reasons too.

This person also said I was whining in offering comments and criticism
about what I regard as an offputting excess of irrelevant chitchat by a
few people. That's also nonsense. Criticism is only whining if you
disagree with it. Sure, my comments weren't coin related. I, well,
digressed. g Actually I was responding to another poster. And
discussing the dynamics of a particular discussion group in that
discussion group has always been popular and mostly accepted so long as
it doesn't ... like the chitchat ... drown out the discussion of the
subject matter of the group.

--

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"mazorj" wrote in message
...
I don't know enough of the posting history here to comment on James' points,
but after 26 years on Internet forums and newsgroups, I do know enough to take
issue with some of your (Reid's) views on r.c.c. as an ongoing froup.

For heaven's sake people, Reid is a glorified troll. Put him in your killfile
and move on.
Whatever positive contributions he may make are wildly offset by his pomposity,
argumentiveness, condescension, self-importance and general all-around
douchebaggery.
Well, at least he doesn't claim to spend $100K in dollar coins a year!

"Petronius" wrote in message
...
"mazorj" wrote in message
...
I don't know enough of the posting history here to comment on James'
points, but after 26 years on Internet forums and newsgroups, I do know
enough to take issue with some of your (Reid's) views on r.c.c. as an
ongoing froup.

For heaven's sake people, Reid is a glorified troll. Put him in your
killfile and move on.
Whatever positive contributions he may make are wildly offset by his
pomposity, argumentiveness, condescension, self-importance and general
all-around douchebaggery.
Well, at least he doesn't claim to spend $100K in dollar coins a year!

With all due respect, that's a decision that every poster should make on
his/her own, based on a good first-hand knowledge of the poster's history
dealing with you as well as with the newsgroup in general.

I have seen enough to lend some weight to your recommendation, but he's
never flamed me and I do find some of his material interesting even when it
does come across as a bit stilted. (To which this deponent adds his own
scribblings here and in certain other posts as evidence of a tendency to do
the same. Not being without sin, I'm hardly in a position to cast the first
or even the fiftieth stone on writing style. That being said, his
ill-disguised whines about OT and other Usenet "sins" are starting to grate
on my nerves.)

Nobody's perfect so it depends on how the good and bad stuff balance out.
My jury is still out on RG. Hell, I managed to have some enjoyable
conversations with Finnan when he was in one of his informative, play nice
moods - even after he had shown plenty of examples of his own douchebaggery.
(BTW, nice neologism there.)

- mazorj the Tolerant

Petronius wrote:

For heaven's sake people, Reid is a glorified troll. Put him in your killfile
and move on.
Whatever positive contributions he may make are wildly offset by his pomposity,
argumentiveness, condescension, self-importance and general all-around
douchebaggery.
Well, at least he doesn't claim to spend $100K in dollar coins a year!

For heaven's sake people, that's right. At least I don't do that! LOL.
What an intelligent comment. I actually spent $100 million in coins last
year. But that was only last year. Why don't you tell us about your
crappy little collections of slugs that you spend $2 a year on. Oops,
I'm being pompous, argumentative, condescending, and self-important again.

The names change, but the baiting and the trolling live on, and always
will. Long live unmoderated Usenet. For heaven's sake people.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
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Petronius wrote:

Hey, "Petronius," why don't you take that bag off of your head and
reveal who you really are? I know, it's more fun to post with the bag
on. Well, since "Petronius" spilled the beans, I thought I'd show off
some of my acquisitions thus far this year. I picked up that Class II
1804 dollar, previously in the Smithsonian's collection, but for heavens
sake people please don't tell the U.S. Mint because this was another
secret deal by one of their staffers who had access. I was also able to
acquire one of the 1933 Saints, not one of the ten seized by the Secret
Service from Israel Switt's daughter but from another batch still out
there, but for heavens sake people please don't tell anyone about this
either. I was also fortunate enough to acquire a 1964-D Peace dollar and
a 1974 aluminum cent -- for heavens sake people don't believe everything
you read about these either. Moving backward in time, which is where the
fun really is, there's the Athenian Owl dekadrachm that just arrived,
but I'd ask for confidentiality here too for heaven sakes people in case
the U.S. State Department goes along with the Turkish government if it
attempts to seize it as it has others and return it to Turkey as
cultural property even though it was minted by Greeks and used by Greeks
living in an area of current-day Turkey that at the time was a part of
Greece. Well, that's five coins anyway, five of the ... let me do a
quick count here ... 5,372,109 coins that I added to my collection this
year, and there's still nearly a month left in 2009!

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Petronius wrote:

Hey, "Petronius," why don't you take that bag off of your head and
reveal who you really are? I know, it's more fun to post with the bag
on. Well, since "Petronius" spilled the beans, I thought I'd show off
some of my acquisitions thus far this year. I picked up that Class II
1804 dollar, previously in the Smithsonian's collection, but for
heavens sake people please don't tell the U.S. Mint because this was
another secret deal by one of their staffers who had access. I was
also able to acquire one of the 1933 Saints, not one of the ten
seized by the Secret Service from Israel Switt's daughter but from
another batch still out there, but for heavens sake people please
don't tell anyone about this either. I was also fortunate enough to
acquire a 1964-D Peace dollar and a 1974 aluminum cent -- for heavens
sake people don't believe everything you read about these either.
Moving backward in time, which is where the fun really is, there's
the Athenian Owl dekadrachm that just arrived, but I'd ask for
confidentiality here too for heaven sakes people in case the U.S.
State Department goes along with the Turkish government if it
attempts to seize it as it has others and return it to Turkey as
cultural property even though it was minted by Greeks and used by
Greeks living in an area of current-day Turkey that at the time was a
part of Greece. Well, that's five coins anyway, five of the ... let
me do a quick count here ... 5,372,109 coins that I added to my
collection this year, and there's still nearly a month left in 2009!

Reid, I can tolerate some of your verbal excesses once I've vented about
them, but your outbidding me on those first four coins you mentioned is just
plain unforgivable.

James the Disgruntled

On Dec 4, 1:50*pm, Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Petronius wrote:

Hey, "Petronius," why don't you take that bag off of your head and
reveal who you really are? I know, it's more fun to post with the bag
on. Well, since "Petronius" spilled the beans, I thought I'd show off
some of my acquisitions thus far this year. I picked up that Class II
1804 dollar, previously in the Smithsonian's collection, but for heavens
sake people please don't tell the U.S. Mint because this was another
secret deal by one of their staffers who had access. I was also able to
acquire one of the 1933 Saints, not one of the ten seized by the Secret
Service from Israel Switt's daughter but from another batch still out
there, but for heavens sake people please don't tell anyone about this
either. I was also fortunate enough to acquire a 1964-D Peace dollar and
a 1974 aluminum cent -- for heavens sake people don't believe everything
you read about these either. Moving backward in time, which is where the
fun really is, there's the Athenian Owl dekadrachm that just arrived,
but I'd ask for confidentiality here too for heaven sakes people in case
the U.S. State Department goes along with the Turkish government if it
attempts to seize it as it has others and return it to Turkey as
cultural property even though it was minted by Greeks and used by Greeks
living in an area of current-day Turkey that at the time was a part of
Greece. Well, that's five coins anyway, five of the ... let me do a
quick count here ... 5,372,109 coins that I added to my collection this
year, and there's still nearly a month left in 2009!

--

Consumer:http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur:http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit:http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

It sounds as though you may be (singlehandedly) keeping Chinese
counterfeiters and the Chinese economy prosperous.

Peter wrote:

It sounds as though you may be (singlehandedly) keeping Chinese
counterfeiters and the Chinese economy prosperous.

How so?

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
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Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Dec 2, 5:44 pm, Reid Goldsborough wrote
in part:

Lawyer Michael Benveniste
previously pointed out here that at least two circuit courts have ruled
that possession of counterfeit coins without intent to defraud doesn't
violate the U.S. counterfeit statues (United States v. Cardillo, 708
F.2d 29 [1983], and United States v. Ratner, 464 F.2d 169 [1972]).

The individuals involved in those appeals were convicted of possession
with intent to defraud under Section 485....which requires intent to
defraud.

The cases pointed out that simple possession without intent to defraud
does not violate Section 485, but neither case proved that simple
possession does not violate U.S. Counterfeiting Statutes as you claim.

Try reading the cases.

Phil DeMayo wrote:

Try reading the cases.

Right. And does the case law prove that if you drive to and from a coin
club meeting or coin show with a counterfeit of a collectable coin, your
car can be seized by the government because the coin is contraband? So
we're clear on what's legal and what's not, how about telling us again
your legal opinion.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
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Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos