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#11
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"John Yamamoto-Wilson" wrote in
message ... The fact that the seller cannot spell the title of the book he or she is selling, or do the rudimentary amount of work needed to see whether it might have some scarcity or collectible value is part of the attraction of eBay. Indeed. I picked up my copy of the late Francis Dvornik's *Early Christian and Byzantine Political Philosophy* (Dumbarton Oaks, 1966), 2 vols. on eBay a couple of years ago for about $10. In this case, the seller made two errors: (1) She listed the volumes separately about a month apart--thus to the casual observer, she was, each time, selling half of a broken set. I had a strong feeling the other half would turn up, so I bid the first time around and was lucky enough to catch the second volume. (2) She also misspelled Dvornik's name. Fortunately, other of my search terms brought the book up and I recognized the misspelling immediately. One can understand what a bargain this was, if one knows that Dvornik has cult status among (Catholic) students of East-West relations. Consequently his books are much sought after. *Early Christian and Byzantine Political Philosophy* can easily go for $150. The two complete copies on ABE right now are at $300 and $350: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/...cal+Philosophy William M. Klimon http://www.catholicbookcollector.com |
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#12
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But God bless those sellers who don't know their colophons from their elbow! And also God bless those sellers who put books on E-Bay that are obscure and of little general interest, but are highly regarded by viola players and other quasi-musicological types...I just nabbed (for a few bucks) a beautiful set of "Essays in Musical Analysis" by the venerable Donald Francis Tovey on E-Bay. (Sir Donald wasn't on E-Bay...his books were.) If I had purchased these books in a London Shop, I would have paid lots more. Plus I would have had to spend lots of money to get to London. I like E-Bay. Jonathan |
#14
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On 12 Apr 2004 09:56:51 -0700, (Haunted
River) wrote: wrote in message .. . I am writing a magazine article regarding the increasing amount of fraudulent booksellers on ebay. I would love to hear stories of anyone who either has information or has themselves been scammed when trying to buy books on ebay (or even if YOU were the scammer!). I've noticed a lot of booksellers knowingly pass off Book Club Editions as first editions, as well as people who list books as first editions when they are clearly marked as later printings. I've heard stories of people selling signed books that were signed by imposters, and people who bid up their own auctions to drive the price up. I'd love any stories you may have, as well as any info you may have on who some of these sellers are. If you'd like to remain anonymous, please tell me and I will absolutely respect that. You can either post a reply here or email me directly at . Thanks, and hopefully this article will draw enough attention to this issue and have an impact, because this practice is completely out of hand! I was interested in a book which was listed at an opening price of £4 with no reserve. As I really dislike leaving bids ahead of the auction close, I contacted the seller to advise that I was going away over the weekend so would he like to end the auction now, and I would happily pay him £40? No one was twisting his arm, it was a fair and upfront offer. Besides, if I hadn't left a bid, someone else might have bought it for £4 and he would have lost £35. Now, I appreciate that this is technically an Ebay rule infringement, but I understand that neither Ebay nor Ebay sellers view it as a serious one. Ebay still get their fee, and the seller gets a choice of what to do. Imagine my surprise when a bid suddenly appeared for the book within 20 minutes of my email being sent. This, after the book had attracted no interest in 4 days. So I did a quick bit of checking and discovered that the bidder had frequently bought things from the seller, and vice versa. In fact, a good 25-30% of their respective feedback was from each other, and it was of a very weird nature e.g. overly enthusiastic, almost making fun of the whole system. I thought about the situation and decided to place a bid. Instantly I was outbid. I placed bigger and bigger bids - and was amazed to see the bids shooting up to £5,000 (five thousand) pounds. By this time I knew that something really fishy was going on. Then the seller suddenly ended the auction. I sent him an email saying that I would report the whole matter to Ebay. He sent me an email asking me to call him. When I called him I could not believe my ears. He told me that whenever anyone expressed an interest in one of his books - whether it be a general enquiry like mine, or in placing a bid - that he would ask his friend to shill the bids up to either a satisfactorily high level, or else to chase all other bids off, just to find out what the book might be worth. It meant that not only had he cheated several people but that his feedback profile was false. And he told me he had ended our auction because he was worried about Ebay spotting the high level it had achieved. I had heard that Ebay were notoriously lax about investigating such issues, so when he offered to sell me the book for the £40 I had originally offered - in exchange for my silence - I decided to accept. I thought I would pick up the book at a fair price and just avoid him like the plague in future. Why should I get embroiled in a policing Ebay? But I should have guessed that anyone so shady as to rig auctions and post fraud feedback would not honour their commitment: he started stringing me along, suddenly terrified that the book might be worth even one penny more than we had agreed. For a month he kept saying that he couild not sell the book because his wife was reading it; etcetera etcetera. Finally I had had enough, and told him to keep his lousy book, and that I would report the matter to Ebay and walk away. Whereupon he sent me a couple of very sinister emails, saying that he had got a criminal record for violence, and that he knew where I lived. It came as no real surprise for me to learn that an Ebay seller with a feedback profile of 1000+ was in actual fact a convicted criminal. Anyway, I went ahead and reported the matter to Ebay; I also put in a bid on one of his other auctions so that I could post a warning via the feedback system to other buyers to the effect that this man was shilling bids with his friend. The result? Ebay let him off the hook. I forwarded them original emails in which this man admitted shilling bids and in which he admitted both to a criminal record and making physical threats. They turned a blind eye to his antics because they were making money from him. They also removed the warning feedback I had posted about him saying that it had nothing to do with that actual purchase. I am now EXTREMELY suspicious of ALL Ebay sellers and usually only bid when I know the seller personally. Undoubtedly there are a great many common crooks who are probably selling off stolen property, and they manipulate the Ebay system in any way possible, knowing that Ebay eagerly turn a blind eye. As a bookseller of ten years standing, most of that via printed catalogues or ABE, I know there are far more reliable and sensible ways to buy or sell books than to risk dealing with rank amateurs and criminal types. But I can see that the allure of a possible bargain is a difficult one to pass up. Good luck with the article. I hope my one convulted experience proves of some assistance. Nothing funnier than seeing an admitted liar, cheat, and thief complaining about someone else lathering him in his own slime. The first sentence of your little rant is enough to get you permanently NARUed from eBay. Good day, John Pelan |
#15
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"John Pelan" wrote in message ... Nothing funnier than seeing an admitted liar, cheat, and thief complaining about someone else lathering him in his own slime. The first sentence of your little rant is enough to get you permanently NARUed from eBay. Good day, John Pelan The whole thing sounded like performance art, didn't it? Kris |
#16
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John Pelan wrote:
The first sentence of your little rant is enough to get you permanently NARUed from eBay. The first sentence of Haunted River's posting was actually: I was interested in a book which was listed at an opening price of £4 with no reserve. Looks pretty innocuous to me, John. Do tell us what sinister designs you find lurking beneath its apparently innocent facade! I guess you mean the second sentence: As I really dislike leaving bids ahead of the auction close, I contacted the seller to advise that I was going away over the weekend so would he like to end the auction now, and I would happily pay him £40? That suggests HR hadn't actually placed a bid, in which case that would be against eBay policy: "eBay prohibits email offers to buy or sell listed items outside of the eBay site" (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ebay-sale.html) The correct approach would have been to bid the item up to £40 and then contacted the seller asking him/her to end the auction early: "It is acceptable for sellers to end a listing early in order to sell an item at the current bid price to the high bidder. Bidders are permitted to contact sellers with requests to end a listing early; however, sellers are under no obligation to do so." (ibid.) However, I don't think one gets "permanently NARUed" for one infringement. Certainly, I fought quite hard on one occasion to get eBay to NARU someone whose behaviour was far worse than this. I gather it took three complaints before they took any action at all, and a few weeks later the suspension was listed and he was back (the same seller has, I believe, been NARUed again at least once since then, but is still selling on eBay). More disturbing is HR's claim that Ebay let him off the hook. I forwarded them original emails in which this man admitted shilling bids and in which he admitted both to a criminal record and making physical threats. They turned a blind eye to his antics because they were making money from him. I think this stems from the "three strikes and out" policy that they seem to employ, so from the complainant's point of view it seems that nothing has been done, when in fact eBay have notched up one complaint, but don't actually do anything until more complaints come in. That doesn't seem a very good way of dealing with things, though, because it doesn't take into account the severity of the infraction. The case of a seller who admits shill bidding and threatens violence is clearly more serious than that of someone offering to buy something outside the eBay site but, from what I understand, eBay deals with both in exactly the same way. Nothing funnier than seeing an admitted liar, cheat, and thief complaining about someone else lathering him in his own slime. Sounds like one of those syllogisms about Cretans. I mean, suppose he was lying when he admitted being a liar? Anyway, I do hope you're not going to start wishing him "sausage" in prison and all those other things that so poisoned the season's good cheer when you laid into him last Christmas... -- John http://rarebooksinjapan.com |
#17
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:20:21 +0900, "John Yamamoto-Wilson"
wrote: John Pelan wrote: The first sentence of your little rant is enough to get you permanently NARUed from eBay. The first sentence of Haunted River's posting was actually: I was interested in a book which was listed at an opening price of £4 with no reserve. Looks pretty innocuous to me, John. Do tell us what sinister designs you find lurking beneath its apparently innocent facade! I guess you mean the second sentence: As I really dislike leaving bids ahead of the auction close, I contacted the seller to advise that I was going away over the weekend so would he like to end the auction now, and I would happily pay him £40? That suggests HR hadn't actually placed a bid, in which case that would be against eBay policy: "eBay prohibits email offers to buy or sell listed items outside of the eBay site" (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ebay-sale.html) The correct approach would have been to bid the item up to £40 and then contacted the seller asking him/her to end the auction early: "It is acceptable for sellers to end a listing early in order to sell an item at the current bid price to the high bidder. Bidders are permitted to contact sellers with requests to end a listing early; however, sellers are under no obligation to do so." (ibid.) However, I don't think one gets "permanently NARUed" for one infringement. Certainly, I fought quite hard on one occasion to get eBay to NARU someone whose behaviour was far worse than this. I gather it took three complaints before they took any action at all, and a few weeks later the suspension was listed and he was back (the same seller has, I believe, been NARUed again at least once since then, but is still selling on eBay). More disturbing is HR's claim that Ebay let him off the hook. I forwarded them original emails in which this man admitted shilling bids and in which he admitted both to a criminal record and making physical threats. They turned a blind eye to his antics because they were making money from him. I think this stems from the "three strikes and out" policy that they seem to employ, so from the complainant's point of view it seems that nothing has been done, when in fact eBay have notched up one complaint, but don't actually do anything until more complaints come in. That doesn't seem a very good way of dealing with things, though, because it doesn't take into account the severity of the infraction. The case of a seller who admits shill bidding and threatens violence is clearly more serious than that of someone offering to buy something outside the eBay site but, from what I understand, eBay deals with both in exactly the same way. Nothing funnier than seeing an admitted liar, cheat, and thief complaining about someone else lathering him in his own slime. Sounds like one of those syllogisms about Cretans. I mean, suppose he was lying when he admitted being a liar? Anyway, I do hope you're not going to start wishing him "sausage" in prison and all those other things that so poisoned the season's good cheer when you laid into him last Christmas... Hello John: Quite right, second sentence... It is disturbing that eBay allows for a three strikes policy when some very serious infractions occur. Of course they also allow idjits like Barker to ruin sellers feedback by complaining when he couldn't figure out how to wind a clock... I did pick up a rather rare volume a couple of years ago because Barker so badgered the seller with demands that he end an auction early that the seller withdrew everything from eBay. Some time later a mutual acquaintence suggested that not only would I be far more pleasant to deal with, I'd likely pay a better price. The book wound up on my shelf, but the poor man is still soured on eBay from his meeting with the Toad. My only seasonal wishes for Mr. Barker were that he sit on an Easter egg and hatch it, as I've always wanted to see a cockatrice... Cheers, John |
#18
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I wrote:
The case of a seller who admits shill bidding and threatens violence is clearly more serious than that of someone offering to buy something outside the eBay site but, from what I understand, eBay deals with both in exactly the same way. Someone e-mailed me to point out I only know Haunted River's side of the story, and of course that's true. So perhaps I should make it clear that the above is a comment on what appears to be eBay's policy in general, rather than on this particular incident. I'm very likely wrong - or partly wrong - on both counts (i.e., both as regards this incident and as regards eBay's policies in general), but I'm just calling it the way I see it. -- John http://rarebooksinjapan.com |
#19
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"John Yamamoto-Wilson" wrote in message ...
John Pelan wrote: The first sentence of your little rant is enough to get you permanently NARUed from eBay. The first sentence of Haunted River's posting was actually: I was interested in a book which was listed at an opening price of £4 with no reserve. Looks pretty innocuous to me, John. Do tell us what sinister designs you find lurking beneath its apparently innocent facade! I think it was just two weeks that Pelan leapt in to accuse me of selling fraudulently-acquired photocopies of rare dustwrappers, overlooking the fact that this was the point I was actually trying to make e.g. that I was myself cautious about sending people free scans of rare things because I suspected they were up to no good. That's what Pelan does in his haste to pursue his vendetta: he leaps to false conclusions. CB |
#20
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"John Yamamoto-Wilson" wrote in message ...
I wrote: The case of a seller who admits shill bidding and threatens violence is clearly more serious than that of someone offering to buy something outside the eBay site but, from what I understand, eBay deals with both in exactly the same way. Someone e-mailed me to point out I only know Haunted River's side of the story, and of course that's true. So perhaps I should make it clear that the above is a comment on what appears to be eBay's policy in general, rather than on this particular incident. I'm very likely wrong - or partly wrong - on both counts (i.e., both as regards this incident and as regards eBay's policies in general), but I'm just calling it the way I see it. Someone emailed you off list? Jesus, talk about a stalking campaign. There are clearly a few empty-lived obsessives out there. The seller DID make these threats. I forwarded the emails with original headers to Ebay. They or the Police could have liased with the sellers ISP to validate them, if Ebay had wanted to take any action (which they didn't). Only those deranged few who have devoted their lives to stalking me have an interest in arguing otherwise: and why should I lie? No one was mentioned in my post. If the cowardly stalker who emailed you off list would care to dispute this I suggest that he or she does so publicly. (Though they were probably emailing you under a sockpuppet id anyway.) CB |
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