Ebay follow up

you truly know nothing about the autograph business..and continually
decide to rip me for no reason...you really have offered no real
opinions or anything other then to try and shame me.
and yes, i PERSONALLY got 3 daniel radcliffe items. and i got him on
four items several years ago in chicago...you, on the other hand can
not say that you know anyone who has gotten him...and your orlando
bloom is fake, and if i was ever given the opporitunity, i think i
could actually prove it beyond just showing you the ones in my
personal collection. it's just like when i talked to you personally
about that guy who was telling me that all the fakes he was buying for
$5 ea and showed off hundreds of examples, you still couldn't
tell...but like i said, you truly know nothing of this hobby...
it would simply go down to i get my stuff in person, i see the people
signing...and you get 90% of your collection in the mail.
but i'm not trying to start an argument, you are...
and no, there's not a sucker born every minute, there are people that
know what they are doing...sadly, i think i've proven that this isn't
you.
m

and i'll say this...no one is purposely sending in known fake items to
psa or any other authentication house...they just aren't doing it.
it's just that you think people are doing bad things to you, so
everyone must be bad. it's part of your whole thing...that conspiracy
theory thing...people aren't going to gai with bad stuff hoping that
it will pass, or thinking that because they know them, that the stuff
will pass.. and they aren't doing it at psa dna, or REAL or any other
place...that's just a LUDICROUS idea...but like i said, that's what
you do, everyone is conspiring...
mike

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:38:03 -0700, barefoot
wrote:


this is not true...the bbb is not even a trusted source for info about
a business any longer...there was a time where you actually had to be
a member of the bbb just to run a business. but not any longer. you
don't need "proof" to file a complaint. if you actually look at the
complaints against psa, one guy actually said that they "switched" his
real autograph with one of their fakes...there was no proff offered in
this situation...

So, show me where you are seeing this? SHOW us.

the guy who runs strickler sports posted the complaints on his myspace
site...and i HAD TO see if they were real...EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT was
a one off, with no follow up...and the bbb still gave psa a d rating.
they aren't keeping people's stuff...this is what i'm talking about
when you just figure something has to be right, because you assume it
must be so...how long ago was this shell oil thing?? because in fact,
a few of the psa dna complaints actually say that there was no follow
up. maybe they are lax in their ways these days, or it's simply too
hard to deal with all the companies there are out there...but i'm sure
psa isn't a member of the BBB, so they didn't do any follow up on any
of the complaints...

Well, posting on Myspace an opinion is not exactly what I call a legit
source. Show us the BBB link. If they aren't a member of the BBB, a
complaint can't be made against them as far as I know. But I will
have to double check that. But seriously... this is a professional
organizations; they look into stuff before putting allegations into
the public realm. All we have right now is YOU saying this crap and
we all know what that is work.

this is not true...people buy willy nilly and without any thought as
to what they are truly buying...that's why so many people and so many
forgers get away with it on ebay. with all the complaints on ebay that
there are, there are probably a thousand more if the buyers actually
knew what they were buying. but everyone wants to have an authentic
product. but they also want to spend almost no money for it. i should
bring up the story of my own cousin (now, she lives in ohio and i
don't know them all that well) but when i went out for the wedding,
she had a FAKE stone cold steve austin photo on her wall that she just
bought for her soon to be husband (the guy is actually my cousin, not
the girl, but she's the one i talked to about this.) and she knew i
was an autograph person...she just bought it on ebay for like 9$, just
cause it was cheap. now, let's use that to set up the hypothetical.
let's just say that she has a kid, and that kid wants a miley cyrus.
but now my cousin's been burned and she doesn't want her kid
burned...where does that kid get her miley cyrus from??? someone who
has no story and the ebay item line just says "this item was signed by
the celebrity in person. i go to all the premieres and events in
hollywood and am well known in the autograph community." or, do they
go to the dealer who's line says "this is signed by miley cyrus, it
was signed on october 21, 2006 at the ______ premiere. i also got this
item authenticated by psa dna to protect the customer and so that
customer further knows that i do not sell fakes. psa dna certified
g123456" etc. etc. the price is a little higher, but it's a given,
there's all this information AND the certification number from a
reputable authentication house AND now, this is also a reputable
dealer...which would you decide...and no, you can't say "NEITHER."
and there are more of these type customer, people that are buying
what's hot right now. people don't really buy kirk douglas or people
that are worth well more than $100, most of the time...sure, there are
fans, that are buying madonna no matter what etc..but this is why i
can use psa dna as a tool.

This paragraph is so long and on too many subjects I can't comment on
anything. It's hard to read as well with the i's and run on sentences
etc.

look, i don't like having to use this tool. but it just helps to
assure authenticity to a new buyer...sure sue, you are right...it's
great to be honest and forthright...but then again, i have people
attacking me right here on this newsgroup, and you've never even seen
1 item that i sold...so look what it really takes to run an autograph
business...sadly, unless you deal in just private signing autographs,
you are called a forger all the time everyday...

First, you don't know that I haven't seen your stuff. Second, nobody
here was questioning your authenticity except to say you've been known
for years by many people as Bareforger. Maybe true, maybe not. When
things stick for many years, it's always worrisome at the very least.
I would know exactly what it takes to run a business. I could do it
(thought about it at one time) but really, the amount of profit verses
the time and aggravation associated with it is not worth it personally
to me. I do feel I could run a FEW people off and really there are at
least two people I'd love to run out of business (not forgers, but
assholes). I thought about doing it just to achieve that goal. I
almost did it this year. I got sanctioned for a 5k startup by hubby
and thought about it. I have the space and supplies to start small and
the knowhow and some connections to get it off the ground. But I find
also that my being a collector who LOVED the hobby and the act of
being a "dealer" in conflict. So I have decided NOT to do it. So you
don't need to tell me what is needed. I can tell you one thing
though. To succeed the right way, I'd not be on here many hours a
day!

3) never heard anything about Autographworld. When I buy, it's
pretty
much from them so do tell.
stories about autographworld..well, i posted on here that they shill
bids on their own site...well, i can't prove it, and for the most
part, i don't think they do it on everything...but i'm not the only
one hypothesising this. but like i said, i can't be totally right...
there's also a story floating around, mostly in new york, that since
autographworld puts right on their site that they buy collections,
they've been burned a few times...most notably with a bunch of mickey
mantle signed baseballs...but i've never seen them sell the stuff
that's rumored to be burned on, so, it's good that they didn't (if
they didn't)..
and, autographworld tells people that "if they didn't buy it from us,
it's fake." i've sold to many of their customers who have stopped
being their customers on the simple fact that they do sell stuff from
other people, so they call their own customers forgers...even if they
aren't saying it directly, but this blanket statement is silly...and i
can prove that one.
like i said, there's rumors about everyone...no one is above reproach.

Well as for Autographworld, I've only seen one or two items in the
past I was ify about. A great deal of their stuff does come from
conventions and other dealers they buy from who attend conventions.
So that stuff is so obvious to authenticate. I have seen some lots of
album pages etc. I've never had a problem with them but I will say
this; NO dealer is 100%. It's impossible. If they've ever sold
personal collections, items obtained NOT by themselves at all, there
is no guarantee everything is perfect. I pride myself on a good
collection and I know I have some suspect items. I also know my
percentage is very low (for possible secretarial and forgeries). I
once did a workup on the site and I can pretty much tell you every
item where it's from and how I know it's legit. I feel Autographworld
is like that too. They do their best and I really think it's better
than most. I've not seen them say "If you didn't get it from us, it's
not authentic". If they said that, that would be wrong. There's a
crap load of real items all over and some are in forgers grasps as
well. Nobody can say for sure one way or another.

4) And I am sorry, but the "it happened to me
stories" are what you SHOULD be listening to. That's where the truth
lies. You would rather buy from someone whose been a forger say
because PSA authenticated it instead of listening to someone who
bought from them and knew their graph was fake and had proof? Get
real.


well, yes. but people aren't passing fake autographs through psa
dna...no matter what you have heard or anything, there aren't any "i
bought this psa dna'd item and just for kicks, ran it through gai and
it didn't pass" stories. you're right, the people selling autographs
should have something other than just the psa dna coa to go with their
stuff...but like i said before, most dealers do not get the stuff
themselves...they buy from other people...so they aren't going to have
the first person "i got this guy here." stories anyway...but i have
started to run into dealers who say "i won't buy items unless is
passes psa dna or gai." and that's interesting too...which means that
they'll take it to several authenticators...what does that really
mean? that psa isn't the best, or that it's good to go to all the
different people that authenticate so as to not get stale and to also
tell people that they trust their product no matter what...and that's
really the only reason i go through psa...because i'm so confident in
my product that i know it will pass the authentication sticks...i've
went to gai, my stuff passed there as well, but it's not convenient
for me as the guys from psa are close to the starbrite offices and
their authenticating schedule is quicker for me... for the most part,
i don't get a listers most of the time. i get them, but on a day to
day basis, it's better to hope for the "hot" items...a listers come
and go...

Again, a commercial for them...

5)However, the prices for authentication are too high and
basically, in a sale, most of the items they authenticate are not
THOUSANDS of dollars.

for the most part, i agree here...but someone like daniel radcliffe
(i'll just use this example)...he doesn't sign much. he did that play
in london and absolutely refused to sign potter stuff (he did
occassionally sign index cards) but there is no one that got him at
that play in london, for the time he was there, on a harry potter
item. he signed a lot in los angeles at the premiere here...but he was
picky and choosy...and to top it off, he signed a lot of autographs
with a expo dry erase marker his mom gave him...that's right, i'm not
kidding...so you take your autograph and it rubs up against something
(and there were THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE there, there was lots of rubbing)
and your autograph almost completely disappeared...same with the star
ceremony. i almost completely lost my radcliffe on one of my posters
because of that damn marker...and lots of fans with magazines and the
like, got burned. he did sign some stuff with the right kind of
markers...but not everything... he didn't sign at the new york
premiere and he only signed sporadically at the london premiere (he
was mostly just taking pictures with girls in the front rows.) so to
be honest, he may have signed like 3000 autographs promoting the movie
(and i have a total of 8 from everyone i worked with...but we lost one
8 x 10, and one photo, he was signing and taking a photo with someone
at the same time, and all the letters in his last name were on top of
one another)..but out of those 3000 items, maybe there were 10 posters
done... seriously..and my poster had the other kids and chris
rankin...i know that in los angeles, i was the only one working
posters with sale as an intent (there were some girls whose posters
got damaged and there was one dealer with a mini poster from the first
movie)...and of the 3 posters i got him on, one of them was signed in
that dry erase marker and kind of rubbed off at the bottom of his last
name...it only sold at r and r auctions for $457 last month. so with
those very low numbers, i'm sure the person who bought that popster
for $3 grand, knew what they were doing....they know the number is
LOW.

I know the number out there is low (and by comparison, the number for
sale is High so put two and two together and you can pretty much see
the percentage of forged posters is very high). In addition, those
buying posters have another reason to not get their money's worth. In
the end, people who are savvy and willing to put out that kind of cash
do their research usually and will find out these things (posters are
one of the three top forged items, posters get damaged getting signed
and to and from etc). People don't want to buy items that people will
think are forged. So less are buying them. Those that are buying
them, are either novices not willing to do the research who are trying
to get one nice showcase piece and have money to burn. That's not the
norm combo!

but for the most part, you're right, just cause it's authenticated
doesn't make it worth so much...this customer apparently wanted the
poster and said "if you get it authenticated, i'll pay that price." so
she did. but you're right, i see dealers with a psa dna authenticated
nicholson on ebay for $400. and travolta for $100...that's
outrageous...and maybe $3 grand is unreasonable...but there are people
who buy this stuff at charity auctions signed by charles barkley for
$1000, or michael jordan for $5 grand (in fact, i had a customer who
wanted me to sell his jordan 16x20, and when i asked him what he
wanted for it, he said "if i could just get my money back." i asked
what that was and he said "$5 thousand at this alice cooper charity
auction." so where is the line drawn with value of an item...but yes,
i'd rather have an honest dealer...but i sell mostly wholesale, and
mostly on the net...so someone isn't going to get to know me to see if
they like me or want to deal with me...you don't and you don't even
know me.

So, what does PSA charge? Last I heard it was 75 bucks and item. The
photo is gonna cost at least five bucks right? So that's 80 bucks and
the signature for Travolta that's legit probably sells for at least
what? 75? So why are they selling a Travolta sig for 20 bucks?
think about it. Doesn't make much sense. Not to mention that for PSA
to truly authenticate, they'd have to view the item in person. That
would add gas or mail costs too... meaning now, you're most likely
selling it between 5-15 bucks at most. That's ridiculous. If they
are NOT authenticating items in person, that's another serious
problem. Sure we all help one another with jpg scans and such... but
we are not charging! To truly be able to authenticate, you need to
see the back of the item for signs of depression, leakage etc. You
also need to look for pooling on the front and lesser stop/start signs
(and may need to use a magnifier). Also, the marker doesn't come
through right. You'd need to see in person to tell what it was signed
in and also look for copyright things on the photos or numbers on the
poster to determine if the poster/markers were made at certain times
etc. When valuating posters, it's also about the poster too; not just
the sigs. Photos too. Reprinted images will not fetch prices of
original negative first run photos etc. You truly CANNOT authenticate
items by email. you can say yes or no on the signature to some
extent, but if I am paying 75 bucks, I want the WHOLE thing and I want
a certificate that says what makes it legit vs. fake.

and if you do deal with psa or any of the other companies on a larger
scale level, they do highly discount their service fees.

6)I want to know why you think "I heard this"
stories are bad.

most, "i heard this." or third party stories are so full of holes and
mostly bull**** (scuze my french). and in the case that was brought
before, it was "i heard this story about this guy who got his item
signed in person and psa dna wouldn't authenticate it."
this story is missing all the essential details. it doesn't say WHERE
the autograph was obtained...just that some guy says he got something
himself...and it's "a story about this guy." well, there's all sorts
of stories "about this guy." well, i don't know this guy, and you
don't know this guy, and the authenticator doesn't know this
guy...it's just a guy. and most of us are full of ****...people say
they got something themself. hell, i sold a michael jordan poster to
sammy "the bull" gravano, he hung it in his office and told his
friends he got it himself...doesn't mean that he did, he bought
it...and a lot of the really high proced sports stuff that i sold when
i was in phoenix went to high rollers with high office buildings who
wanted a shaq signed basketball, and told all his friends that he got
shaq himself last time shaq was in arizona. so, this guy, who got it
himself, more than likely bought it, but says he got it himself. maybe
it's out of vanity, but oftentimes it's just a story to get someone to
believe them...
shoot, there are plenty of guys that i stand next to, who are really
accused of selling forgeries, who say "f psa dna, i had a customer try
to send back $1000 worth of autograph because they said they couldn't
authenticate it." well, they probably sold some bad ****, that
customer sent it to psa and it didn't pass, and they want their money
back...is that really a problem...you got caught.

ok, i've talked enough...i hope there's some info that you can pull
out that will make you think that there's a lot more to this business
than really meets the eye.
mikeEEEE

Like I don't know that? I've done a lot of my own research and wrote
up articles on my site as well. Most of the business is really common
sense. It's not a mystery. ANYONE can do it.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:56:28 -0700, Renee'
wrote:

On Oct 28, 7:34 pm, Sue H wrote:
but if you are taking a hit on feedback because of shipping, you need
to fix that.

I guess what I was referring to was the fact that sellers get hit on
shipping times and charges and that is something that is out of our
control. We can't make the PO ship faster and less expensively and
sometimes that's what we get graded on. I admit, at the beginning,
buyers were judging more harshly than they are now. I'm not sure if
it's because the nature of my auctions changed, or because the newness
of the feedback system is over.

True about the post office. Sad too as it's grown very expensive
lately.


Lastly, sellers out to be up front with their descriptions (new
is used a lot when they mean "like new" and stuff like that). Honesty
and the more information the better. On the buyer end, they should
add up all the costs before bidding. They should read auctions
thoroughly before bidding (I am guilty of not doing this all the time)
and they should be patient and reasonable if problems arise with
broken items etc. On Ebays end, they should standardize the shipping
like half.com does.

The reason for feedback is to keep the seller honest and no amount of
hand holding and rules is going to make every seller do that. I
believe that the reason eBay is successful is because the majority of
sellers are honest about listings. I for one, will NOT buy from anyone
that does not have a return policy. I also have things listed on
half.com and the standarized shipping does not always come out even.
Sometimes I pay more than I get reimbursed, sometimes I pay less. It
would be very hard to implement that on eBay because of the variety of
items being sold. I believe that would create a huge nightmare and a
lot of sellers leaving eBay.

It truly amazes me too that some people are still bidding on items
I've seen where the person had negative feedback that said "never
received item" over and over again and the feedback score is like 85%.
Cracks me up. I was debating one today. Some baby items for my brand
new grandbaby by someone who had a low score like that. All the
feedback as a bidder was 100% but had 5 negative feedbacks as a buyer
and they all said "non paying bidder". I was actually considering it
because the item was so good for a good price but I got worried. I
thought they sold all their items though perfectly. It's just they
have second thoughts about their bidding. Out of the 5 items, four
had follow up responses from the person and three said something to
the effect "didn't get notified I won". That's no excuse because
after once or twice that happens, you should be looking to see if you
won your own items. The fourth one was a downright lie (forgot now
what it said but I was like yeah, right). So undoubtedly will not bid
because the guy isn't trustworthy. Had he of had one or two
non-paying with the "I didn't get an email from you saying I won" or
something like that, I would probably bid. Not all bad feedback
should count against you. I read them. Does everyone here read the
negatives or just look at the numbers?

Yes, there are sellers out there that jack up the shipping to cover
way more than their costs. But, obviously people are buying from them
or they wouldn't do it. Just don't buy from them! Do you go into a
store and say, what is the price of this without shipping and
handling? Do you think the items you buy from a store don't have that
cost attached somewhere down the line? A person makes the choice to
buy something from someone when you know before hand that it's going
to be high, and then complains about it?

My posts by the way did not talk about shipping. Not these past ones
anyway. So I don't know why you are questioning me on this...

I wasn't questioning you on shipping. I was talking more about the
feedback....


Good Lord, there are so many other ways to buy things in this world,
why spend your time in a place that makes you miserable?

It doesn't make me miserable to know I could be actually hurting
someone bad and helping some people. I don't know why in the world
you people on here are so inactive. All followers here and no
leaders. All take it up the ass people.... and all getting perturbed
at people who try to help. I just don't get it. No offense, but
instead of worrying about me trying to take out a minor criminal, why
are you sticking UP for them? It seems like that when you are trying
to stop me from something that has no affect on you at all. After
all, you can put my posts on killfile if you don't like it and nothing
I am doing hurts you (unless of course you are shill bidding or doing
something to take advantage of the general buying population). As a
matter of fact, maybe I could help rid ebay of one piece of scum who
might have ripped you off. So why get ****ed at my posts? Seems like
you are ... if I am wrong, I apologize, but if I want to warn people
of potential misdoers to save them a few headaches, I don't see the
harm. You can take the advice or leave it?

You don't really know that you're helping people by possibly turning
in innocent ones, right? I mean, they might not be, but what if they
are? You trying to stop someone that SEEMS to have no affect on me at
all might have because I am a seller as well and every person who has
a beef against any seller, warranted or not, has an effect on every
seller in the long run.

Well, if they are innocent, Ebay won't kick them off right? That's
what you all argued about the guy with the shill bidding. Actually,
I've been on Ebay since early 1999 I think. so in 8 years, I've made
maybe a half dozen complaints only and those to me have been really
obvious and agregious in my opinion. Not all of those half dozen or
so were on items I bid on or was interested in but probably it's about
half and half. I am thinking of the masked bidding. Last night I
thought to mask my ID to see the benefits of it. I can't see any
though other than ONE possible thing as a bidder (if a friend wants
something and I want something, it's less likely to cause conflict if
one outbids the other). But as a seller or winning bidder, I see NO
reason to mask my ID. I have NOTHING to hide. I am honest and want
people to be comfortable buying from me and selling to me. I don't
want them wondering why my ID is masked. I still see how if you are
an HONEST seller, what possible affect my turning in a shill bidder,
forger or a scam artist who took my money and didn't deliver the goods
(the only 3 things I've turned people in for ) affects sellers in the
long run? I do see where it hurts the next BUYER though! Another
shill bidder causing the buyer to pay too much, a forger selling
something worth a negative amount and ruining someone's collection (or
potentially a wedding gift like Barefoot showed) or something else
like that, or a person not delivering goods to people who worked hard
for their money? THAT is a reason to turn their butts in. If it
affects you in any way, then my opinion is that's it's like
shoplifting; affects us all, but at least we try to get the criminals
and can sleep better. Sorry you are upset but I am going to keep on.
It's not right to be dishonest or rip people off!

And no, I don't post on here very often. I just like to see what's
going on in the world but when I see that an injustice is being done
toward something I know a little bit about, I like to put a few cents
in just like you. And, really, did I seem ****ed off? It just seemed
to me that you are miserable about the whole eBay thing. I'm sorry if
I read that wrong.

Well, maybe you're not wrong. I do come across as certain things...
bitchy, whiny, aggressive or anal retentive. Apologies to all for
that, but my intent I can assure is for the benefit of all I think in
the posts I post. I mean no harm.

I did read in the discussion area on eBay that buyers are getting
warned about items being fake. People just email them at random and
warn them that something they just bought is fake? I'm not saying it
was you by any means. I'm just saying that if there's a problem with
the seller, let eBay figure it out. Let the buyer do something about
it if it is. It's really none of our business until it's us, you know?
Karma comes around, trust me. I think you've done what you can in this
situation.

I actually have notified people. I've been notified too by people who
emailed me to say they never got their goods and see I have bids on
and I might not want to bid much more, but to email them before
auctions end to see if they got their items by then. I APPRECIATED
that. Really, that saves Ebay money. Sure they may lose the listing
fees, but they also have to pay someone to do those investigations.
The problem with Ebay figuring it out is this: you see a forgery.
You complain to Ebay. They don't remove the item or seller and
someone just paid an outrageous sum for something that is fake. As a
decent human being, I am saddened by this and no, I can't do it all.
But if I see something HUGE like say that 3k poster being sold and say
it was in my opinion 100% forged and easy for me to know, I'd
certainly email the person bidding. I know it's not within Ebay
"rules" and I can be expelled or suspended, but worth it! I hope
you'd do this too. It should be more about being decent and do unto
others type thing.

And excuse me, I am by far not a "take it up the ass" person and am
very offended by the sudden name calling and accusing me of possibly
being dishonest.

Did I call you that? Don't think I was addressing you. Sorry if you
took it that way. As for the dishonesty, I have no idea if you are. I
just don't see how you are upset at me turning in a shill bidder and
how you never post here and all of sudden are upset with that saying
(as above) it hurts you in the long run, that it hurts everyone. I am
happy to hear why you feel that. I have not seen any examples, but I
am happy to listen. I just feel if everyone played the game fair,
nobody would need to whine (not me or the opposing side).

As far as you warning people about potential misdoers, that's fine
with me, but does it have to be pages worth of talking about it?
Really, that's what got me going. The going on and on about it. I was
fine with the first couple posts. It's like you said, "take it or
leave it".

i like to talk too much. I worry about being misunderstood, so I do
tend to drone on, explaining too many details. It's a habit hard to
break. And it wasn't on and on. It was like two or three posts and I
only made one and one follow up. The others were "responses" to
others, like you here. I thought NOT to answer this because now
you'll be upset at the longness of this and me keeping it going. But
it's also RUDE not to respond. I am caught between a rock and a hard
place. I can't win. Barefoot posted as much or more... and others
chimed in as did you a couple times, so you are just as guilty.

It really brought to my attention that there are many more dishonest
people trying to sell on eBay than I originally thought. I am just a
seller selling estate items and have to educate myself on some things
as I go. I would have never thought that people would go to such
lengths to try to prove a fake autograph. This group has brought this
to my attention. Thank you!

Why wouldn't people try to expose forgers? For me, it took one time.
The VERY first autograph I got was a gift and it was an expensive one.
300 for a fake Ford, Fisher, Hamill and Mayhew signed item. I still
have it. That's a very expensive mistake. My hubby got it for me as
an anniversary gift. Came from Dejavu Enterprises (11 years later and
I still warn people about them). They had a catalog with items in it;
all 49.95 and above. I never questioned the graph in the beginning as
I knew it was expensive and people had been saying "you get what you
pay for" and it "must" be real. Till knowledgable collectors (kudos
to mark and Pete) emailed to educate me. That was a lot of money that
many years ago to get ripped off. Actually it still is. I want to
help people NOT feel what I did. My heart sank and my husband felt so
bad he gave me something not only worthless, but tainted a personal
gift for an anniversary. It hurts. It wasn't his fault really. But
my goal now is to educate when possible. Sometimes that means helping
ebayers.

I could, quite frankly, go on and on about the injustices and the
grief sellers and buyers, go through on eBay. And, believe me, there
is a lot! The bottom line is, is that I can still work and shop in my
jammies, not pay overhead, have a pretty flexible schedule, and be
home for my family. And, if I don't like it, I can go somewhere
else.........

Well you SHOULD bring up bad buyers and sellers here. Non paying
people, all that. You COULD help someone. Even if one person,
wouldn't it be worth it? Why are you not? Why are people afraid?
Are you someone who'd witness a crime on the street and be too afraid
to speak? Were you the kid in school who watched someone being picked
on and looked away? Watched someone kick and animal and say nothing?

I hope that you are generalizing and speaking to everyone about this.
You really don't know me.

Those were rhetorical questions/statements. Something just for you to
self-internalize and ask yourself; it was by no means an attack on
you. Sorry if it appeared that way (after rereading I can see where
you might think that)


It appears to me you think I am saying all sellers are bad and took
offense to it because you are a seller. I have no problem with sellers
who are honest. I've actually come on here before and given
recommendations of people who've been outstanding and still if someone
emails me with "do you know anyone who..." if I remember and know, I
will certainly recommend. I believe it's a two way street here. Out
the scammers and pump up the good. In a perfect world, good win out
and business will boom by word of mouth. Too bad it's not a perfect
world... because nobody likes to out evil; instead, they take it and
do nothing. Sad.~Renee'~

You are right about that, Sue. It is a two way street. And I didn't
mean to imply that I thought that you think that all sellers are bad.
I was just stating facts about some things that I know something
about. Some things that I felt I needed to speak up about instead of
taking it "in the ass". Maybe righting a wrong or misunderstanding
about something. And, instead, I seem to have opened up a whole new
can of worms.

~Renee'~

No sellers aren't all bad. Actually, I'd say at least 90
% of sellers are good. Maybe more. But those last % are really a LOT
of sellers overall because of the sheer amount of people dealing on
Ebay. I think a lot of categories have mostly all good sellers.
Certain areas are worse though. Autographs happens to be on of the
worst ever. Sad to see that too. Actually, it's good you opened a
can of worms; you had a lot of good points to make and did it in a
great way (rather than some who name call, threaten etc). I wish more
people would post with the decency you've shown here.

I believe most of my items (less than 1% are secretarial) ttm are
legit. I have three large 9x12 envelopes with letters in them and
some of the binders have pockets full of letters, cards, call sheets,
hand written post-its or other things providing where the stuff came
from. Those that don't, are long time signers usually and stuff is
easy to authenticate. I had a few oddities. A Dave Prowse index card
set signed by someone else who recently wrote me to say Dave actually
signed them and I was wrong; but the sigs are way different (see the
2007 diary for that and do a search on prowse). I post everything...
I had a Carrie Fisher index card set that was secretarial and a rubber
stamp (two batches of those including ruining a good photo) from Mark
Hamill; I've a Ford PP which I traded for on purpose (for reference
sake) and I've bought preprints from Disney to use as educational
material on my site. Other than that those are really the only ify
items ttm. I might have one or two more, but I don't have the time to
go through thousands right now. I do have that Bloom pp and Radcliffe
PP which are good sources of material (Oh, that reminds me to check; I
forgot if they are on the database yet). I have another questionable
Ford item and that four sig fake I mentioned. I have some "gifts"
that are always suspect. The rest is all kosher. I am sure of it. Of
those I have ANY doubt on, I'd never sell. Now I have sold ONE item I
wasn't 100% on. It was a Jake Lloyd. I felt it was good and I
couldn't remember where I got it or find any paperwork with it. I
sold it to a friend and he knew all about it. I explain it all. He
knows I'd not rip him off and if turned out to be wrong, I'd certainly
refund it. Even years later. I have thousands in my collection and I
remember most of them; but I know all the possible problem ones. They
equal about 1% or less of my entire collection.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:54:44 -0700, barefoot
wrote:

you truly know nothing about the autograph business..and continually
decide to rip me for no reason...you really have offered no real
opinions or anything other then to try and shame me.
and yes, i PERSONALLY got 3 daniel radcliffe items. and i got him on
four items several years ago in chicago...you, on the other hand can
not say that you know anyone who has gotten him...and your orlando
bloom is fake, and if i was ever given the opporitunity, i think i
could actually prove it beyond just showing you the ones in my
personal collection. it's just like when i talked to you personally
about that guy who was telling me that all the fakes he was buying for
$5 ea and showed off hundreds of examples, you still couldn't
tell...but like i said, you truly know nothing of this hobby...
it would simply go down to i get my stuff in person, i see the people
signing...and you get 90% of your collection in the mail.
but i'm not trying to start an argument, you are...
and no, there's not a sucker born every minute, there are people that
know what they are doing...sadly, i think i've proven that this isn't
you.
m

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:32:45 -0700, barefoot
wrote:

and i'll say this...no one is purposely sending in known fake items to
psa or any other authentication house...they just aren't doing it.

If they were trying to out them they would....

it's just that you think people are doing bad things to you, so
everyone must be bad. it's part of your whole thing...that conspiracy
theory thing...people aren't going to gai with bad stuff hoping that
it will pass, or thinking that because they know them, that the stuff
will pass.. and they aren't doing it at psa dna, or REAL or any other
place...that's just a LUDICROUS idea...but like i said, that's what
you do, everyone is conspiring...
mike

actually sue, we all know it's YOU, so we know your info is crap! and
i love where you can't answer something because it's a "run on
sentence." you know what was said, you just have nothing to say...all
you can do is rip on people, which i haven't done to you...but i'm
going to start soon...because all you spill out is bull**** and bile
anyway...you don't have to be a member of the bbb to make a complaint,
or else it would just be businesses ripping businesses...and, when you
look up the bbb and see psa dna, the complaints are right there...i
don't need to show you the link, because you claimed that you've
already seen the complaints. im not a member of the bbb, but you can
complain about me...you can complain about single ebay dealers too,
who are running a business...
and no, you couldn't run an autograph business...as soon as you tell
people that 90% of your stuff is TTM and that you know that almost 90%
of the stuff is real, those people who are buying will do one of two
things...either say "i can do that myself" or "everything ttm is fake,
you have no idea who signed it."
i'll give you the individual star wars people and the people who have
contacted you about things etc...but big people like orlando bloom,
that thing is a laugher.

and like i said, the autographworld thing, that's just a rumor...it's
a little bigger than i explained here, but i can't prove any of it so
i won't talk about it.
and i love seeing that you think i'm commercializing psa dna...you're
an idiot...i said i've taken stuff to other authenticators...in fact,
for rock and roll stuff, i'd rather go to a place called REAL..which
is owned by roger epperson, i don't think there's anyone else in the
world with more authority for rock n roll stuff than him (he did once
work for psa, but for health reasons it looks like he broke apart from
them so he could work from home)..you are just a stupid woman who
doesn't look at the facts just because i said them...sorry honey, you
are not an authority on ANYTHING, much less my business that i've been
doing since high school.

and...
First, you don't know that I haven't seen your stuff. Second, nobody
here was questioning your authenticity except to say you've been
known
for years by many people as Bareforger.

no, that's simply not true..that's just you and the only source of
your information being from here...i've only heard that name
once...here...from some guy with a fake name...and it's cute and
rhymes with my nickname anyway..a real simple thing to make up...it
obviously came from someone who knows me, and dislikes me...but sorry,
since i'm one of the only people who gets everything in person, and
rats out forgers, it's going to come that someone tries to discredit
me...happens...again, showing your stupidity sue...and you really
haven't seen my stuff to a point that you know it comes from me...i
never issued coa's, until i started owning starbrite autographs...and
even then, it's nothing compared to the wholesaling i do...i only have
3 wholesale customers, and i'm sure you don't know them...so again,
stop acting like the authority. you know nobody and most of your
information comes from right here.

know the number out there is low (and by comparison, the number for
sale is High so put two and two together and you can pretty much see
the percentage of forged posters is very high). In addition, those
buying posters have another reason to not get their money's worth. In
the end, people who are savvy and willing to put out that kind of
cash
do their research usually and will find out these things (posters are
one of the three top forged items, posters get damaged getting signed
and to and from etc). People don't want to buy items that people
will
think are forged. So less are buying them. Those that are buying
them, are either novices not willing to do the research who are
trying
to get one nice showcase piece and have money to burn. That's not the
norm combo!

again, this is you showing what you DON'T know...people buy things for
stupid prices at charity auctions..and there are a lot more people
buying high end merchandise...and when they know they are getting it
from me, it's good...sure, posters are quite often forged...but people
who know, know that they are selling for far less than their value...i
personally sold an x men 2 poster for $1000, i have 2 terminator
posters that i won't even take less than $2 grand a piece for. it's
not people who aren't doing research....it took the psa'ing to get
that price...sure, they know that it was real before hand, but it was
that added attraction that made it worth the money...they can probably
resell it for whatever they want to when the time comes...you really
don't know anything about the autograph market...i have 4 radcliffe 8
x 10's that i won't take less than $500 for...is that outrageous...no,
because he is a very tough signer (not as tough as tobey maguire
though, but he's been signing lately too.) sure, daniel will probably
sign more as time goes on...but he could not sign anything at
all...and harry potter has a much higher value than star wars right
now...so does pirates of the caribbean (when is disney gonna start
putting on those shows?) shoot, serenity is a higher collector value
than star wars (they just had a show here and the average value was
$60 per sig from any of the cast, official pix was selling carrie
fisher for $10 ea at comic con.)

So, what does PSA charge? Last I heard it was 75 bucks and item. The
photo is gonna cost at least five bucks right? So that's 80 bucks
and
the signature for Travolta that's legit probably sells for at least
what? 75?
psa charges the average person $20 for someone like travolta...and i
only pay 50 cents for photos..so i'm guessing this is even more of
your uneducatedness (yes, i know that's not a word, but it fits
this)..and i'll go even further, i take my stuff to their offices and
i don't get it back for one or even two weeks...and because i get a
discount even heavier than $20 ea, it may take even longer...so they
are looking at it right away, i don't send scans and hope they pass
stuff based on a scan...i don't get the stickers and put them on
myself. and before we get into the argument THE PSA DNA GUYS ARE NOT
DEALERS THEMSELVES...but the guys at GAI are, which is why i don't
deal with them. and if it's a group item, i get a big LOA with when
and why...if you look at their website, it's all explained...oh yeah,
and when they give me a certificate, it's numbered and you can look
that number up on their website...sometimes the item is pictured on
their website and sometimes it isn't. but either way, they are looking
at serious problems if they are authenticating fake stuff...all my
stuff goes to their office and is looked at by several people...not
some guy out of the back of a truck like you seem to think...but i'm
sure you'll call this a commercial...

AND LASTLY...
Like I don't know that? I've done a lot of my own research and wrote
up articles on my site as well. Most of the business is really
common
sense. It's not a mystery. ANYONE can do it.

that's wrong too..it's not common sense. you site gets less attention
than your average myspace page...not anyone can do it...like i tell
people, i have to make my money twice...i have to get the product then
sell it...and you can't do that...there's a lot of the business that
is common sense, but most of it isn't. if it were, how come some
dealers have real harrison ford's on their website for $125 (and it
doesn't ever sell), but then there are other places that can sell
them for $300....it's really like trying to speak english if you are
from china with no teaching...it's nearly impossible..

and this ng is the last place i'd look to see if someone is selling
legit stuff...there's a reason you think things are fake by looking at
your ttm collection....and it's all in YOUR head..
m

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:25:17 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Sue,

Many of the issues you raised (fraudulent sellers, retaliatory FB, etc.) are
simply not problems that can be fixed with a "magic bullet". There are too
many gray areas here. For example, what may be retaliatory one person you
may be just a seller or buyer's way of expressing that the transaction
wasn't acceptable for them either. How in the world is eBay supposed to
filter through each and every supposed example of retaliatory FB and
arbitrate that. That just be ridiculously time consuming and cost
prohibitive and therefore unrealistic. No one ever thinks negative feedback
is justified when they receive it.

Well on my own case, the guy got the money (admitted it and sent email
acknowledging it), admitted NOT sending it because it wasn't worth his
time and thought I was tight because I wanted it (also email proving
that I saved) and then the feedback I left said I didn't get the item
and the response he left is still there; you are welcome to view. My
ID is dahoov2. It's something like he's got insurance? on a 50 cent
item that was under a dollar total? The insurance cost more than
that... ridiculous. But if that isn't an unjust case of retaliatory
feedback with proof up the wazoo, It was provable and he admitted it.
They saw the info and didn't remove it. That's a pretty disturbing
issue.

I can tell you for a fact that eBay execs have told a group of their biggest
sellers straight up that they believe all sellers are replaceable; buyers
are not. From the top down at eBay, they operate under this theory. Now,
that may not mean that eBay can/will eliminate every fraudster, address
every whim or satisfy every buyer by any means. But it does mean that in its
overall policy, eBay would rather err on the side of buyers.

That makes sense actually. Except new people come of age and go on
Ebay all the time. New people. But if word of mouth goes on, it's
easier to replace I'd think sellers rather than buyers. So why then
are they not working on the customer service? All the articles
(including the one you sent me) showed they are working only on Ebay's
bottom line. Not the people. I've never seen them err on the side of
buyers when I was involved. Maybe what you are saying is absolutely
true, but it's not my personal experience I am afraid to say. I'd
LOVE to sit on their panel.

Regarding the new star feedback system, you're incorrect that it's not any
different than the old system. eBay is using it (and will be using it even
more dramatically in the future) to suspend and/or restrict sellers with low
star ratings.

So why not do that with just the regular feedback? It's the same
thing? I mean if a person has a percentage below a certain thing,
then wouldn't that be enough grounds? The SAME people are leaving
feedback and that affects the rating %. Those same people are also
grading the stars. There's not much difference in my view. Is it
because it's "anonymous". Is it known at ALL to the seller? Here's
my question on that. Let's take one scenario: if a seller is selling
one item say for the first time and that's all (obviously those who
sell a lot it'll be a lot harder to tell) and he gets one feedback and
a rating. Won't he know that the one person who left the feedback was
also the person who graded him?

You mentioned search... eBay just instituted a new search that severely
penalizes sellers who don't specify a S/H amount by putting their items at
the bottom of search. Additionally, they will soon be implementing a policy
that will put sellers with low FB and star ratings lower in search. These
are pro-buyer policies.

I do admit, there is one new feature I like. It's a total with
shipping feature and on your "My Ebay" summary, it lists the shipping
now too. It's a good "at a glance" thing to compare. You can also
search by lowest price or highest including shipping. I like that. I
do see a lot of people not putting shipping still. I had NO idea they
were being penalized for that. Could you expound on the penalty? I
appreciate you educating me and the group. They continually change,
so it's hard to keep up with all of it. I get email updates etc like
everyone else but really I could do a hundred Ebay emails a day easily
with bidding, outbidding, watches, ending soon, new favorites dealers
listed and all that. Plus their regular spam.

So this new thing with the low feedback is a good idea. I won't look
at anyone below 99% usually. However, there's a problem with that
too. If someone only has a feedback of 10 and ONE feedback is unjust
and bad, that rating is VERY low. So that can't be 100% good for
those people or buyers disregarding them not thinking about that
possibility. Seems everything Ebay does has some negativity attached
to it. I understand it's hard. But you now saying they will do this
is really the first CUSTOMER oriented thing you have mentioned I
think. It's almost exclusively negative to the seller. When is this
new feature coming?

Regarding the "consumer groups", again, it's incorrect to say they're mostly
made up of sellers. How do I know? Because these consumer groups are called
Voices and I'm a member. Voices is evenly split between buyers and sellers
and the sellers are segmented into all different sized sellers. My
particular group that was flown out to San Jose consisted of 5 buyers and 4
sellers (one other seller had to back out at the last minute due to a family
emergency). Out of the four sellers, one was a "big" seller (relatively
speaking) one was a "medium" seller and two were small hobby sellers who
also were buyers. The vast majority of the issues raised were "buyer" issues
and most of the seller issues were site "tweeks". In other words, they
weren't issues of money.

I've based my views on that only based on articles and CNN type
expose; I don't know about the group you belong to so my posted
comment is based solely on that. I apologize if it's lopsided. It's
just my view from what I've seen. How savvy are the "buyers" here.
Long time or new people? I'd think that'd matter. Are they
addressing issues such as retaliatory feedback and how to identify
shill bidding and not getting items you paid for? Or is it all about
"how can Ebay make your buying EASIER and more fast/convenient?".
Because when I saw that hour show, THOSE were the things asked by the
Ebay people. None of those bad issues really came up. The news
reporter though (it was some inside Ebay and some from a reporter) did
show someone's house and where some scammer was and that some buyer
actually stalked the seller and drove from far to go to his house! It
was a negative Ebay view because the guy said Ebay did nothing... do
you know this show I spoke of? I think it's called "The Ebay Effect"
and was shown on CNBC. This and about a dozen articles I've been sent
by my hubby, my friend Rob and MSNBC are what I base a lot of my
opinion on (but mostly my personal experiences and those of people I
know around me).

Additionally, Voices is an ongoing program that includes many weekly
conference calls, emails, a chat board, etc. Who do you think has the most
time to participate in these things? I'll give you a hint... it's not
sellers; especially not large ones. Most of the input on these things comes
from buyers not sellers.

I don't know if they really listen to that Chat board! LOL have you
seen some of the things there? woah; there's some crazy people and
rude people etc.

As a member, I know what policies are coming down the pike months before
they happen. For quite some time now, the focus has been on getting the
fraudulent sellers and poorer performing sellers off the site. Almost every
recent new policy and almost every upcoming one is targeted to that goal.
BTW, this is costing eBay A LOT. Listings are dropping for the first time
ever and much of it is due to the fact that so many sellers are being kicked
off, suspended and restricted. They're actually having to look at fee cuts
to get the existing sellers to list more to make up for it.

Look, it's good in the LONG run if they lose money now to do this. If
they become the undisputed place to go where people are HAPPY buying
99% of the time, they will never not make money. They already have
the basic tools; they just need the consumer to be happy and feel like
they are being treated right. The customer is always right type thing
(but I add within limits). Sure there's no such thing as perfect, but
if they go aggressively after non paying people, rip off artists,
forgers etc and have good items on there and good dealers, then it all
works out positively for all in the end I think. Except the scammers.
But let's face it, those scammers will just go elsewhere.

Again, eBay just kicked off Bargainland... their biggest seller. Again,
these things are happening without fanfare. Just because you are not reading
them in the New York Times doesn't mean they aren't occuring.

What's to prevent this guy from coming back?

This brings me to your next point... you want eBay to tell you what action
they take against a particular seller. Well, unfortunately they can't do
that. There are legal privacy issues that eBay must abide by... they have no
choice.

Well, I'd like to be known that someone took my claim seriously, and
that if the seller was found to be as was stated, that he's no longer
on Ebay. I don't need to know his name, his address, his phone number
or his credit information. I see no privacy issues with someone
saying the offender has been suspended or expelled. If they
legitimately WERE thrown off, then that's not libelous or anything.

Next, the shilling software. The shilling software operates even when there
are no specific complaints. Many sellers are kicked off for shilling without
ever having a single complaint filed against them. Some are kicked off
improperly and have to fight through eBay red tape for weeks to be
reinstated. Again, eBay errs on the side of buyers here.

Please explain the software if you can because I'm really concerned
they aren't looking at all that needs to! What about all those 0
feedbacks on at least 85% of that guys auctions past and present, a
LOT of masked ID's and all of them being up to 90 days old at least
and never another purchase or sale? All bidding on only same persons
auctions? Something is very wrong here! Now from what I understood,
they do a credit card search and if all those are different, that's
what they used to guide them? At this point, they should do more than
that. They can see patterns for sure if I did but if only doing the
credit card, how do you know it's not different family members,
workers or kids or fake names? They should do a little more detective
work; patterns of locations where those people are bidding from,
possibly making sure addresses are not deserted lots or supermarkets
and such nonsense. There are more avenues to check. It's amazing to
me in less than an hour, they checked this guy out that thoroughly. I
must say though, that's the FASTEST single response time I ever had!
It's just in this case it should be reverse! Take that slower and
other things go faster (like solving a problem before an auctions
end)! Let's face it, there is still a LOT of problems.

Regarding masking, I know you don't like it and you feel it makes it easier
to shill. To an extent, I actually share your concern. However, thousands of
eBayers were being ripped off by fake 2nd second chance offers on high
priced items. Many of these people lost thousands of dollars. I think you'd
agree that something had to be done to protect these people. Possible
solutions were kicked around for nearly two years before ebay implemented
masking. No one, including eBay themselves, was thrilled with the solution
but it seemed to be the best one. It continues to be tweeked.

Masking does more than mask shill bidding too. So what are you saying
about the 2nd chance offers? Are you saying someone is selling
wholesale stuff for more than it's value and they are offering it to
two people (the winner and then doing a second chance offer?). I don't
understand. If that's the case, then Ebay is the one getting ripped
off from fees and the buyer is NOT getting ripped off; they can
decline the offer and if they want to overpay, that's their business
right? I guess you mean something different. I've only ever gotten
two second chance offers; one was a comic or something and there was
only one and it was like 5 bucks and the other thing I forget but
probably was similar (one item sold for not too much).

Regarding Todd, he wasn't kicked off... he was chased off. eBay's stupid
PSA/DNA quick opinion policy was the culprit. The worthless quick opinions
found several of his items were not authentic and he was briefly suspended.
He knew they were authentic and sent them in for full opinions... all of
them passed. It cost him so much grief (and money), he moved his entire
business off of eBay. He had a positive FB rating of 99.5% and
tens-of-thousands of satisfied customers, so if you think he was one of the
problem sellers, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Actually though, I've seen fakes on there from him (mixed with good
items). He wasn't too innocent I don't think. His inventory was
massive and on face value that's worrisome. Not saying all his items
were fake or I can say there's proof the high inventory means anything
but I have seen forgeries on there from Star Wars (he sold a TON of
those). Even common ones like fisher that even newbies could tell.
ONE person complaining isn't right either. There needs to be more of
a "group" consensus. I know the dinosaur guy can give his ONE opinion
and they boot people and that's actually not good in a way because
again, it's conflict of interest (he sells on there and is no degree
or vetted). Same with PSA. Ebay needs good quality people willing to
work objectively; they need to do vetting and see a CV or resume. As
with autographs; that's more difficult. But for things like fossils
and jewelry or even DVD's it's now.



Again, as with any big business there is much to criticize about eBay. That
criticism should be accurate and factual, though. Stating that eBay favors
sellers over buyers may have been accurate at one time, but it definitely
isn't now and hasn't been for awhile.

-A

I know this was very long. I enjoyed this conversation very much. I
think you've put some things into perspective and though I seem
negative/anti-Ebay and you seem more pro Ebay (as you're personally
involved with them) I think between the two of us, it's a balanced
view; only you have a little inside info to tip us on and I do hope
you'll continue to share with us. Thanks.

also, that guy from strickler sports posted that BBB notice because
that's what it was on the BBB...he wasn't stating an opinion...but
it's how i found out about the d rating that psa does get...

but i will say this...people only post problems...all the HAPPY
people, they don't have the tendancy to tell people how happy they
are. they don't call the BBB and say "i was so pumped to get this...."

mike