Amanda Pays FA!!!

Just to show my ignorance ... What it a private signing?

In today's world, as far as authenticity goes, the only way to know
100% that an autograph is 100% real is to get it in person YOURSELF.
Getting an autograph any other way you just cannot be 100% sure ...
maybe 99% if you have trust in that person or if there is a photo of
the celeb signing it (but the photo would have to show something unique
about the autograph that shows the signature you have matches the one
the celeb is signing) ...

As far as COAs ... again, they are as good as the people who are
offering them. bf may have COAs that are 100% real, but based on the
crap that I have seen on this board, I would not put money into it.

Sue H wrote:
GAWD....

my head is spinning; I keep having dejavu, my opinion gets more
solidified, and I think I am going to vomit.

PS Since you are not from the ttm world, you have no right to comments
about these things; especially when you do not know about private
signings and the like. If you are living in that world, you will
become more experienced about it. I don't proport to know how it is
stalking celebrities at Premieres and chasing down cars, so you should
leave this area alone.

As far as COAs ... again, they are as good as the people who are
offering them. bf may have COAs that are 100% real, but based on the
crap that I have seen on this board, I would not put money into it.

And thats what he seems to just not understand. His rantings do nothing
but hurt his business. When I first started on this board he was trusted
for the most part. But every time he opens his mouth it hurts him. I would
never buy a graph from him now!

Private signings are where someone contacts the celeb personally (or
if like a sports star, through their agent) and arranges a session
where the celeb sits and sigs for a non-business entity... ie a person
like you and I. The problem with this, is people don't often know
what they are doing and cause celebs to get mad, or offer too much to
the celeb/too little, don't have proper items to sign, or other
things. You really need to have some experience before doing these
and you should also have a personality for it. Many have NOT the
personality for it, causing a lot of problems. There's a couple on
this board lurking who know what I am talking about. They've
alienated celebs to the point the celeb will never sign again! I have
done these for Star Wars in the past. Mine always went brilliantly;
but they are a pain in the arse (take a lot of time, some upfront
funds and commitment as well as organization). It's not as easy as
people think it would be.

Anyway, with these, usually, you do the same thing as a convention or
in bookstore etc (except you take the photos or video of the signing
and the people aren't in line/and usually you offer proof like a COA
with it. My friends only got one once or twice; I usually didn't
issue COA's. They knew me and trusted me which I think is as good as
a COA... but if they wanted one, I would've made them. No biggie.)



On 6 Dec 2006 04:31:33 -0800, "UnionBoi"
wrote:

Just to show my ignorance ... What it a private signing?

In today's world, as far as authenticity goes, the only way to know
100% that an autograph is 100% real is to get it in person YOURSELF.
Getting an autograph any other way you just cannot be 100% sure ...
maybe 99% if you have trust in that person or if there is a photo of
the celeb signing it (but the photo would have to show something unique
about the autograph that shows the signature you have matches the one
the celeb is signing) ...

As far as COAs ... again, they are as good as the people who are
offering them. bf may have COAs that are 100% real, but based on the
crap that I have seen on this board, I would not put money into it.

Sue H wrote:
GAWD....

my head is spinning; I keep having dejavu, my opinion gets more
solidified, and I think I am going to vomit.

PS Since you are not from the ttm world, you have no right to comments
about these things; especially when you do not know about private
signings and the like. If you are living in that world, you will
become more experienced about it. I don't proport to know how it is
stalking celebrities at Premieres and chasing down cars, so you should
leave this area alone.

He never stops insulting the in person collector and getting on his
mighty horse thinking he knows everything. I feel like I know a lot
about ttm collecting but don't think I know a lot about in person
collecting and selling in a store on Ebay, so I don't get adamant
about my positions there... yet he always tells me I need to
win...well when I feel strongly about my area, hell yeah, I think I am
right and will come off that way. The difference between him and most
of us, is we defend and talk about what we know. We don't insult
others for their collecting habits/knowlege, and we certainly don't
put our 2 cents into stuff we never researched or know about. THAT is
the problem here. The insults and bringing up subjects and posting
lenghty posts rambling over and over on subjects he's not into.
IRRITATING.

On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:37:39 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote:

As far as COAs ... again, they are as good as the people who are
offering them. bf may have COAs that are 100% real, but based on the
crap that I have seen on this board, I would not put money into it.

And thats what he seems to just not understand. His rantings do nothing
but hurt his business. When I first started on this board he was trusted
for the most part. But every time he opens his mouth it hurts him. I would
never buy a graph from him now!

This is EXACTLY what I said. On private signings, it's a little
different when I've done them. Sometimes, the celeb will put a blurb
on their website about this, or a thanks or something else to show one
has been done with a certain person or group. That's part of the deal
up front.

On 6 Dec 2006 00:51:02 -0800, wrote:

What is a COA?
It is a certification saying an autograph is authentic.
And, if it is deemed to be not authentic... What happens?
The certifier should have to refund the $.
So, what a COA means is that an in-person guy believes his signature
will be authenticated by so-called experts like PSA/DNA or whoever else
it is these days.
Barefoot, you are right and wrong. While it is impossible to be 100%
certain about TTM signatures, it is also impossible for an
authenticator to be 100% certain about ANY autograph.
It is possible for an in-person guy to certify an autograph as 100%
authentic, but impossible for a non-present 3rd party to do so beyond a
shadow of a doubt.
Bottom line is all of it is a scam.
On to private signings... Again, the same rules apply. I think I can
guesstimate whether an item is good or not, but it is my opinion. I
could believe something is real that isn't. Does that make it any more
or less real in my eyes? No.
I guess what I am trying to say is that you are both right and both
wrong. There is no way to authenticate anything without 100% proof.
Be it a video camera or a photo that shows the pen on the photo and
more than 1/2 of the signature.
There is no other way!

I think if you go back in time, YOU were the one who brought up this
subject and it all started with me posting an update on my site about
that database and you offering in person scans, telling me the
copyrighted/trademarked sigs were off! Then this offshoot from that,
with you commented on this particular subject as an offshoot... I
believe the person was talking about something else and you stuck in
your two cents starting another debate, which is what you feed off of.
It's like you live to insult people and start fights.

Harrison Ford DID a private signing. I know the guy who did it. You
know NOTHING.

On 5 Dec 2006 22:49:18 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

no, we are talking about giving a COA to a TTM signature..there is
nothing here about a database...

and harrison ford isn't doing private signings...that's just a rumor
and has never happened.
mike

Looking back, I believe the original question was how can you issue a
CoA for an item that was obtained through the mail and as much as I
hate to get involved - I have to agree with the sentiment. An
"authenticator" saying a signature is genuine isn't worth a thing. And
for the record, the Amanda Pays autograph doesn't look exactly like
either my in-person or my through the mail success, which was obtained
through a very reliable source - her husband!! Mind you, its not
significantly different either and if anyone's interested, I'm happy to
share a scans.

If I was out of context when he posted, my apologies; I still think he
butted into something he knows nothing about.

COA's aren't worth anything really, but if someone wants one, it's
best to give them one, but instead of saying COA, it should say
"Provenance". The whole thing here is HONESTY. You should say that
you received the item through mail correspondence on such and such a
date and to your best knowledge, you know the celebrity hand-signed
it, and will guarantee that the item was received through the mail by
you and nothing else. If they can prove you lied about that, then
they are entitled to money back. It's no different than proving the
item wasn't signed by the celeb.... the thing is you CAN'T! Even the
celebrity can say they did or did not sign it, but it's even possible
for THEM to make a mistake! Maybe it was signed years ago and the
celeb doesn't have the same handwriting etc.

For example, I was just signing Xmas cards. On three of the first 28
cards I signed, there were horrendous errors. I mispelled my hubby's
name, I ran two letters together on one of the salutation words, and
one was signed backwards... and looked terrible because I got up and
did something, came back and finished it. All three of these things,
had they have been on Ebay as autographs, would certainly have been
looked at as fakes. Imagine mulitplying this hundreds of times!
Egads.

I think everyone agrees; COA's aren't worth much unless they are like
the one I mentioned earlier... with name, address, phone number,
email, website on there of the seller, hologramed showing the number
and the official license of the item, with a photo showing the
celebrity signing and in the background proof of who they signed for
with the date. That's the best you can get and that's it. If you
don't have all that together, it means nothing.

On 6 Dec 2006 07:25:59 -0800, wrote:

Looking back, I believe the original question was how can you issue a
CoA for an item that was obtained through the mail and as much as I
hate to get involved - I have to agree with the sentiment. An
"authenticator" saying a signature is genuine isn't worth a thing. And
for the record, the Amanda Pays autograph doesn't look exactly like
either my in-person or my through the mail success, which was obtained
through a very reliable source - her husband!! Mind you, its not
significantly different either and if anyone's interested, I'm happy to
share a scans.

first, my slight rant, then some answers from people that have asked
them.
first, sue. i love it when i'm told i'm being insulting....you really
need a thicker skin... cause there's NOTHING insulting...you just take
me actually taking a stance as an insult...you don't think it's
insulting when you say that an inperson autograph doesn't deserve a
COA? you started it. TTM's are fake...bar none, no one saw the stuff
get signed...NO ONE.. not even you...one person hit the nail on the
head, you can never be certain unless you were right there, getting it
yourself. sue stop making claims like "in my opinion, none of these are
worth a COA" "only private signings are worth a COA" and then start
spouting how your "friends" who were in star wars and the companies
that produce garbge for the guy who wasn't even in focus in some scene
in empire strikes back deserves to be rated higher than the business i
perform....you ripped my business as soon as your opened your f@#$ing
mouth! so that's why i said what i said...and NONE of it was insulting.
quit thinking that your opinion is the way everyone thinks... you are
not god and know NOTHING of the true autograph business.
you get upset when i say that some of your stuff is fake, but you want
to make the hobby better...you do the hobby a disservice everyday by
showing off that orlando bloom,ot the harrison ford i remeber seeing.
you really want me to be insulting? it's not all that hard.
realistically, i'm the least insulting person in this conversation. you
want your opinion to be the only opinion and you push your agenda every
chance you get...so, i'm not the one who's being insulting. YOU ARE
INSULTING.
COA does not mean certification...all a COA is, is a statement, usually
from the seller, stating that the item is real in their belief...almost
no onee who sells to the dealers makes a COA and it's on the dealer
(the person you bought it from) to make a COA. there's no certifying
anything..
now, all the authenticators give out LOAs. Letters of Authenticity.
Very similar to the above, but it's more that COAs have such a bad rap.
For the most part, the authentication companies stand behind their
statements a little more than the dealers, since their entire
reputation rests on their opinion.
authenticators make many, many mistakes. and it really sucks to think
that it takes an outside authenticator to say that an item, that you
obtained yourself, is real or not. do you realize that there are
already collectors who won't buy something that won't pass PSA DNA? in
an article i'm working on for autograph collector magazine, i've run
across several dealers who won't pay the in person collector until the
item passes PSA DNA. in a realtively newer business, it seems that this
is the future of collecting...and although these people do make
mistakes, i imagine that the mistakes will dwindle even further then
their probably 1% mistake rate that they seem to make now...it's just
that the mistakes get amplified simply because of the fact that their
opinion is the whole reason for business. How it goes, if you pawn
yourself off as an expert,then when you make a mistake, you should face
the consequences.. sadly, that's the future of this business though.

private signings, a pre set up signing with a "celebrity" or someone
who's autograph is worth some value where you pay that person to put
his/her autograph on items that you can then go on to sell. They are
pretty frequent in sports as many, many athletes get paid sometimes
even millions to do signings for several different companies like
steiner, tri star etc. at this moment in time, movie and tv stars do
not do these. on occassion, if it's a sci fi movie, some stars from
shows and movies sign for card companies- and this is basically part of
the promotion for the show, and not for a paycheck (promotion is part
of their contract and the show has contracted some card company to
produce product for that show). it is required per their pre arranged
contract. usually, if some movie star/television does a signing, they
haven't worked in quite a while and their agent told them about selling
autographs at shows like the hollywood collector's shows, chiller
theater etc. or on the rare occassion, they do do it to meet fans (ie-
LOTR players and lost players at the creation shows) but for the most
part, an actor looks at signing for money as an insult to the acting
profession, as they are paid to act. more often than not, said shows
are relegated to people who haven't worked in a very long time and are
sort of cashing in on their old fame. and if they make a lot of money,
they keep doing it.
to that end, there are people out there who set up signings with the
same people willing to do shows (and people who haven't, but are
equally broke) and have them sign a certain number of items because
they have customers that aren't able to attend the above shows.

bottom line, it all sucks to prove that your stuff is real...no one can
ever be certain on any front..be it 3rd party guys (authenticators),
you can never tell TTM (but i do think, if you're going to sell that,
you should say that you got this in the mail- which is why this
discussion is taking place anyway) and yeah, you can't really tell
based on an in person collector because there are many unscrupulous
characters. no matter how long winded the story is orhow many photos
you take etc....
in the end, it's all just someone else's handwriting. why bother, i
guess.
mike

oh, i have to answer this...

sUE:I think if you go back in time, YOU were the one who brought up
this
subject and it all started with me posting an update on my site about
that database and you offering in person scans, telling me the
copyrighted/trademarked sigs were off! Then this offshoot from that,
with you commented on this particular subject as an offshoot... I
believe the person was talking about something else and you stuck in
your two cents starting another debate, which is what you feed off of.
It's like you live to insult people and start fights.

Harrison Ford DID a private signing. I know the guy who did it. You
know NOTHING.

1- i didn't insult your thing with the nascar names...i saw that you
had thought this and posted a reply (and apology) that it wasn't my
intention to say that anything was wrong with that...
2- these are 2 different posts and i didn't mix them up, you must've..i
didn't insult..i asked "how can you authenticate something that you got
TTM?" and further questioned that if you are going to sell said TTM
item, why don't you say "i got this in the mail"? when listing it on
ebay. and i went on to hypothesize that it was because sales would be
non existant. no offense intended, but buyers trust TTM even LESS than
i do.
3- your friend is a liar then...i saw harrison ford LAST NIGHT, and he
said he would NEVER do a signing for money. that he has more money and
more brains than to do something like that. he went further to say that
he's been having momre and more people contact him and his agent asking
if this would ever be a possibility and he joked that he told his agent
that if they want to pay him $200-250 (and do 500 items) an item he
would consider it, because he thinks that no one would ever come up
with that money. he went even further to say that his agent then
offered him to $200 to sign something for his kid, as a joke.
i'll have to back up a little then, i can't say, totally that your
friend is a liar..because maybe he was willing to pony up that money
(which is a ridiculous amount)...but i highly doubt it, cause that
would mean that harrison LIED TO ME FACE TO FACE...

mike