Licensed items

alright...now i'm just going to call you people DUMB. I'll spell it out
for the stupid people so that i don't have to repeat myself again.
i'll start with my own comments and follow up with your stupid ones...
1) NOTHING i sell is licensed. It's true. No arguing there...BUT.
1a)once an item is signed, it's a piece of memorabilia, and the
licensed/unlicensed thing goes out the windowThis was an actual court
case, I think in Ohio, but it was with the NHL Players association. And
a Judge Ruled on this. THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO RIGHT MY OWN SIDE AND
MAKE YOURS TO BE LESS..IT"S fricking LAW. the judge actually stated
that once a player signs it, he/she has given permission to do with it
whatever they way. After this point, players like Patrick Roy started
checking for the NHLPA logos on stuff they were signing and turning
down stuff that they didn't see a logo on. Then some basketball players
started doing the same thing. and if you see players doing private
signings, EVERYTHING is licensed. this transfers over to celebrities as
well. as long as it's signed, it's different than if it's not...so,
from sue i'll answer this.
So you're telling me that YOU can reprint any copyrighted material and
sell it but I can't copy a photo from a DVD I paid for, for personal
use?
YES, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TELLING YOU. i haven't contradicted
anything. I'm not saying that your stuff from your dvd's is wrong. BUT
IT CLEARLY STATES ON YOUR DVD THAT ANY (wish i could make that look
bold) REPRODUCTION OR RETRANSMISSION IS PROHIBITED. don't stare at your
screen like i'm an idiot because guess what.
2) there is nothing about not reproducing the images as making a photo
directly from a press kit is basically promotion- at my cost. there
is NOT ONE THING ON MY PRESS KITS THAT SAY ANTHING TO THE CONTRARY. in
fact, press ktis are readily available all over the internet for
free...which is why you see way more forgeries on ebay and other places
from movie stills than you did say, 4 years ago. there are plenty of
web sites where you can just pull the photos from the kits and no one
cares...they aren't necessarily as nice or as clean as the ones from
the press kits, but it's all the same thing basically. any idiot with
photoshop (that includes myself) can find anything from movies even
BEFORE they come out, BEFORE THE PREMIERE EVEN. all that a studio can
do is have the stuff veroed off ebay if there is a problem. and like i
stated before in my last post, ebay isn't going to argue...they just
pull it. a lawsuit would bring much more harm to their business than
anything, and in all the stuff that you had to agree to to be an ebay
seller, you basically signed over your rights to argue back.
3) and this all goes down to the publicists and studio execs putting
their hands into everything, even taking stuff away from their talent.
if the talent doesn't stand up for the stuff, then you really have no
choices. but talent has so much on their plates, they don't care about
studio fan mail issues, or fan mail in general unless it finds their
way to them directly. this is totally true. which is why i stated what
i stated next.
4)another reason why
i say that most of the TTM's are secretarial...the stuff people send to
a "celebrity" goes through so many hands before it finally arrives at
celebrity A, that there's a strong possibility that no one wants to
bother celebrity A with it, so they take care of it themselves. stop
trying to brush it off as me being a loudmouth and look at the
facts...YOU AREN'T getting as much stuff back as you used to, you are
getting letters saying that celebrities can't sign unlicensed
stuff...and that goes back to my above statement. IT'S TRUE. you can
argue till you are blue in the face over this if you'd like. and i'll
keep coming up with anecdotes and evidence to the contrary. i didn't
say EVERYTHING is secretarial, i even went so far as to say that Matt
Kenseth took a pen from my wife so he could sign his mail. and everyday
at spring training, i see dozens of plpayers walking out of the
clubhouse with their fan mail in tow. I'm still saying that it's still
a VERY LOW PERCENTAGE of the case...which is where i stated the next
thing...
5) ROBERT PATRICK just said that he has "someone who handles that." so
does that mean if you write to robert patrick, you re going to get a
fake??? not necessarily, but i bet odds are that you are not getting
robert patrick's autograph...if someone like robert patrick (i know he
had his moment) has someone handling his minimal fan mail, imagine
who's really not taking care of their mail at all.
COME ON IT'S ROBERT PATRICK. Do you really believe that if he's got
someone handing his fan mail, that Robin Williams is signing his stuff?
Just because I don't have a story about Robin. Do you think that Heath
Ledger is signing his. How about the tens of thousands of other
celebrities like Brendan Fraser, Ali Landry, John Cena (actually, i
would belive that Cena would sign his mail. and anyone with any kind of
star status has any time on their hands to sign your stuff...I never
said all of them, and i would believe that some people like heidi klum,
or Elle Macpherson have the time, and LOVE to sign for their fans...But
do you really believe that Morgan Freeman, who says that he doesn't
sign autographs AT ALL, really signs his mail but leave 3 kids with
scraps of paper out in the cold ? come on, it only takes common sense
to realize that it's not liklely.
i then posted something very nice and encouraging.
6) i have posted on here that i've seen celebrities carrying their fan
mail with the intention of signing it. but it's few and far between.
I've also been privy to being the bat boy and spring training
equiptment gopher for the san diego padres when i was in middle and
high school. and i still have plenty of people's (probably some of
yours) autograph requests from guys like TONY GWYNN. he gave me ALL of
his fan mail at the end of the season with the explicit instructions to
keep all the baseball cards and throw the letters out. now if you know
baseball signings in the nineties- you'll know Tony Gwynn was extremely
nice about signing in person at the ballpark. Super Cool. you'd think
you'd get something back from him- a fan club invite, an already
preprinted pic like nolan ryan would send, or something his grandmother
signed - Jeff George used to laugh about that one, since he had his
grandmother sign his mail....but for 3 years, you got NOTHING BACK, and
i still have all those cards. some very nice psa'd rookie cards that
are valued pretty highly too- people send stupid crud in the mail as
well.
so aside from the people with small roles on sci fi television shows,
and people who are generally nice in person...please tell me how any of
this is BIASED INFORMATION. this is very public info that you can
probably look up (at least the top portion about the judge and the
licensed/unlicensed info). so i'm actually tired of people just reading
bits and voicing their opinion with nothing to back it up...so let's
address the accusations...
from sue
Seems you interpret what you want so it suits your case and nobody
else. i didn't interpret s@#$!. this is written on your stuff that
you are printing photos from...it's implicit, and it says it before AND
after the movie, just to drive the point home. i don't copy anything, i
have press kits with digital proofs inside- on a disc. i don't make any
copies, these are actually considered originals.
would venture to say us standing side by side in a courtroom, YOU
would go to jail in about 30 seconds, while technically I might be
guilty too, but I'd have a lot more defense than you!
seems to me that what i have in my hand IS NOT COPYRIGHTED. you are
printing from a source that says implicity with all the beautiful FBI
fonts and logos that what you are doing is against the law. you aer
KNOWINGLY breaking the law. whereas, my stuff, for now, does sit in a
grey area. in the future, this may no be the case, but for now, it is.
so for right now, they could come in to your house and take you away.
RIGHT NOW.
I would say 95% or more of my ttm successes are legit. *Then again, I
am not contacting Alist celebs. It's only Alist celebs pretty much
where this secretarial thing happens
there is not any list in the world that has Robert Patrick on their A
list...i think that's enough said. you have stated in the past that you
get real responses, not just an autograph scribbles on your material,
it's all well and good, but i didn't say that everything is
secretarial. it just never happened. but i do believe that 90-95 % of
all the autographs going out TTM are. because you (and alot of people
that read and post here) write to smaller actors and actresses and
other celebrities, knowing that your chances are better...but in the
whole world, more people are writing to the big names and Never getting
anything back, or writing to some lame ass fan club and getting
secretarial and pre printed material back and pawning it off as
authentic. so i do think it's ok to lump it all into one category
because that's the way it is...
so, on to SBFAN2000
As much as I used to respect barefoots opinion this 'most TTM are
fake" is really turning me off.
sorry to burst your bubble, it's true. i think i've more than proven my
point. now your personal collection may differ as like i said before,
you are probalby writing to lesser known people knowing that your
chances are better.
Its becoming quite transparent that he just thinks he's hot ****
because he can get stuff in-person.
I've never commented on this one way or the other...i've just stated
that basically, I, and many other people, have seen my stuff get
signed. Do you know anyone who's watched your stuff get signed? again,
this can go back to the writing to lesser named celebrities. but
there's always been someone who's watched my stuff get signed, and most
likely, it wasn't just me.
He insists that everything TTM is fake because you don't see them sign
but thats exactly what hes doing, judging autographs sometimes with out
seeing them.
that's just never happened. I said, MOST, and i don't backpeddle or
change my answers halfway through. I stick to this...
John Travolta said a couple years ago in an interview that I have on
tape somewhere in my 3000+tape collection that he signed when he has
time.
i'd love to see that tape. but my comment wasn't from an interview. I
was standing there when it came out of his mouth. someone asked him why
his stuff in the mail looks NOTHING like his inperson signature and he
flat out says he doesn't have time and that his sister and family take
care of that for him. and this was long enough ago that it's been 10
years. i don't believe the tape, and if he did say it, it was baloney
just like when i read in Beckett Magazine that Isiah Thomas signs
everything because he was dissappointed when Dr. J wouldn't sign for
him and he'd never turn anyone down. Meanwhile, during my several year
span of getting basketball players (including when i was a kid of 13
years old) Isiah Thomas still eludes me and i've asked several times.
Signing habits change, but that of publicists and studio execs don't.
if it's policy that a celeb doesn't get fan mail, that pretty much is
the status quo.
now all that being said (man this was long and potentially stupid) i
only stated all this because it's quite obvious, that even these lesser
known people are having their mail opened by publicists, agents etc.
and it's becoming a thing with them. if sue is getting notices that the
"celebs" are no longer signing unlicensed material. imagine how many
other people, that you are not getting stuff back, are experiencing the
same thing. like i had stated before you folks goe me off the subject,
Warner Bros. has a bery big beef with unlicensed stuff and they insist
their stars not sign it. Heck, the guy playing Superman is already
turning down unlicensed stuff when his publicist is around, and usually
when she isn't. Brandon Routh hasn't done a thing in his career as of
yet, meanwhile, he's already tough, as a result of studio people
shaping his head (and trying to mold his career) if this is a problem
for some basically unknow like him, imagine the hundreds of other young
and new actors that a studio, publicists and other folks have their
hands into.. does it really make it THAT HARD to realize that there's a
lot of value in what i've been saying???

christ that was a book. SORRY. had a lot to say. i do apologize to the
folks who don't care

Does that mean the photo I sent to myself, signed and sent back to
myself is a Fake???

Way to long and redundant to read but I'll comment on what I read. (Got to
4, then the major redundances kick in.) :-) Of the numerous presskits I
have almost all that I have say "Copyright, All Rights Reserved" that means
no copying. only one set I have (Ernest Goes to Camp) says "Permission is
Granted to Newpapers and Magazine to reproduce these pictures as long as it
includes "Beanu Vista, All Rights Reserved" Are you a newspaper or
magazine? I do agree that screen captures are illegal but so is copying ANY
copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder. Hence
the words "Copy" and "Right."

And who ever claimed Sue had to much time on her hand. Take tomorrow off
work and read this post. Come on barefoot the length of this is nuts. :-)

"barefoot" wrote in message
oups.com...
alright...now i'm just going to call you people DUMB. I'll spell it out
for the stupid people so that i don't have to repeat myself again.
i'll start with my own comments and follow up with your stupid ones...
1) NOTHING i sell is licensed. It's true. No arguing there...BUT.
1a)once an item is signed, it's a piece of memorabilia, and the
licensed/unlicensed thing goes out the windowThis was an actual court
case, I think in Ohio, but it was with the NHL Players association. And
a Judge Ruled on this. THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO RIGHT MY OWN SIDE AND
MAKE YOURS TO BE LESS..IT"S fricking LAW. the judge actually stated
that once a player signs it, he/she has given permission to do with it
whatever they way. After this point, players like Patrick Roy started
checking for the NHLPA logos on stuff they were signing and turning
down stuff that they didn't see a logo on. Then some basketball players
started doing the same thing. and if you see players doing private
signings, EVERYTHING is licensed. this transfers over to celebrities as
well. as long as it's signed, it's different than if it's not...so,
from sue i'll answer this.
So you're telling me that YOU can reprint any copyrighted material and
sell it but I can't copy a photo from a DVD I paid for, for personal
use?
YES, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TELLING YOU. i haven't contradicted
anything. I'm not saying that your stuff from your dvd's is wrong. BUT
IT CLEARLY STATES ON YOUR DVD THAT ANY (wish i could make that look
bold) REPRODUCTION OR RETRANSMISSION IS PROHIBITED. don't stare at your
screen like i'm an idiot because guess what.
2) there is nothing about not reproducing the images as making a photo
directly from a press kit is basically promotion- at my cost. there
is NOT ONE THING ON MY PRESS KITS THAT SAY ANTHING TO THE CONTRARY. in
fact, press ktis are readily available all over the internet for
free...which is why you see way more forgeries on ebay and other places
from movie stills than you did say, 4 years ago. there are plenty of
web sites where you can just pull the photos from the kits and no one
cares...they aren't necessarily as nice or as clean as the ones from
the press kits, but it's all the same thing basically. any idiot with
photoshop (that includes myself) can find anything from movies even
BEFORE they come out, BEFORE THE PREMIERE EVEN. all that a studio can
do is have the stuff veroed off ebay if there is a problem. and like i
stated before in my last post, ebay isn't going to argue...they just
pull it. a lawsuit would bring much more harm to their business than
anything, and in all the stuff that you had to agree to to be an ebay
seller, you basically signed over your rights to argue back.
3) and this all goes down to the publicists and studio execs putting
their hands into everything, even taking stuff away from their talent.
if the talent doesn't stand up for the stuff, then you really have no
choices. but talent has so much on their plates, they don't care about
studio fan mail issues, or fan mail in general unless it finds their
way to them directly. this is totally true. which is why i stated what
i stated next.
4)another reason why
i say that most of the TTM's are secretarial...the stuff people send to
a "celebrity" goes through so many hands before it finally arrives at
celebrity A, that there's a strong possibility that no one wants to
bother celebrity A with it, so they take care of it themselves. stop
trying to brush it off as me being a loudmouth and look at the
facts...YOU AREN'T getting as much stuff back as you used to, you are
getting letters saying that celebrities can't sign unlicensed
stuff...and that goes back to my above statement. IT'S TRUE. you can
argue till you are blue in the face over this if you'd like. and i'll
keep coming up with anecdotes and evidence to the contrary. i didn't
say EVERYTHING is secretarial, i even went so far as to say that Matt
Kenseth took a pen from my wife so he could sign his mail. and everyday
at spring training, i see dozens of plpayers walking out of the
clubhouse with their fan mail in tow. I'm still saying that it's still
a VERY LOW PERCENTAGE of the case...which is where i stated the next
thing...
5) ROBERT PATRICK just said that he has "someone who handles that." so
does that mean if you write to robert patrick, you re going to get a
fake??? not necessarily, but i bet odds are that you are not getting
robert patrick's autograph...if someone like robert patrick (i know he
had his moment) has someone handling his minimal fan mail, imagine
who's really not taking care of their mail at all.
COME ON IT'S ROBERT PATRICK. Do you really believe that if he's got
someone handing his fan mail, that Robin Williams is signing his stuff?
Just because I don't have a story about Robin. Do you think that Heath
Ledger is signing his. How about the tens of thousands of other
celebrities like Brendan Fraser, Ali Landry, John Cena (actually, i
would belive that Cena would sign his mail. and anyone with any kind of
star status has any time on their hands to sign your stuff...I never
said all of them, and i would believe that some people like heidi klum,
or Elle Macpherson have the time, and LOVE to sign for their fans...But
do you really believe that Morgan Freeman, who says that he doesn't
sign autographs AT ALL, really signs his mail but leave 3 kids with
scraps of paper out in the cold ? come on, it only takes common sense
to realize that it's not liklely.
i then posted something very nice and encouraging.
6) i have posted on here that i've seen celebrities carrying their fan
mail with the intention of signing it. but it's few and far between.
I've also been privy to being the bat boy and spring training
equiptment gopher for the san diego padres when i was in middle and
high school. and i still have plenty of people's (probably some of
yours) autograph requests from guys like TONY GWYNN. he gave me ALL of
his fan mail at the end of the season with the explicit instructions to
keep all the baseball cards and throw the letters out. now if you know
baseball signings in the nineties- you'll know Tony Gwynn was extremely
nice about signing in person at the ballpark. Super Cool. you'd think
you'd get something back from him- a fan club invite, an already
preprinted pic like nolan ryan would send, or something his grandmother
signed - Jeff George used to laugh about that one, since he had his
grandmother sign his mail....but for 3 years, you got NOTHING BACK, and
i still have all those cards. some very nice psa'd rookie cards that
are valued pretty highly too- people send stupid crud in the mail as
well.
so aside from the people with small roles on sci fi television shows,
and people who are generally nice in person...please tell me how any of
this is BIASED INFORMATION. this is very public info that you can
probably look up (at least the top portion about the judge and the
licensed/unlicensed info). so i'm actually tired of people just reading
bits and voicing their opinion with nothing to back it up...so let's
address the accusations...
from sue
Seems you interpret what you want so it suits your case and nobody
else. i didn't interpret s@#$!. this is written on your stuff that
you are printing photos from...it's implicit, and it says it before AND
after the movie, just to drive the point home. i don't copy anything, i
have press kits with digital proofs inside- on a disc. i don't make any
copies, these are actually considered originals.
would venture to say us standing side by side in a courtroom, YOU
would go to jail in about 30 seconds, while technically I might be
guilty too, but I'd have a lot more defense than you!
seems to me that what i have in my hand IS NOT COPYRIGHTED. you are
printing from a source that says implicity with all the beautiful FBI
fonts and logos that what you are doing is against the law. you aer
KNOWINGLY breaking the law. whereas, my stuff, for now, does sit in a
grey area. in the future, this may no be the case, but for now, it is.
so for right now, they could come in to your house and take you away.
RIGHT NOW.
I would say 95% or more of my ttm successes are legit. Then again, I
am not contacting Alist celebs. It's only Alist celebs pretty much
where this secretarial thing happens
there is not any list in the world that has Robert Patrick on their A
list...i think that's enough said. you have stated in the past that you
get real responses, not just an autograph scribbles on your material,
it's all well and good, but i didn't say that everything is
secretarial. it just never happened. but i do believe that 90-95 % of
all the autographs going out TTM are. because you (and alot of people
that read and post here) write to smaller actors and actresses and
other celebrities, knowing that your chances are better...but in the
whole world, more people are writing to the big names and Never getting
anything back, or writing to some lame ass fan club and getting
secretarial and pre printed material back and pawning it off as
authentic. so i do think it's ok to lump it all into one category
because that's the way it is...
so, on to SBFAN2000
As much as I used to respect barefoots opinion this 'most TTM are
fake" is really turning me off.
sorry to burst your bubble, it's true. i think i've more than proven my
point. now your personal collection may differ as like i said before,
you are probalby writing to lesser known people knowing that your
chances are better.
Its becoming quite transparent that he just thinks he's hot ****
because he can get stuff in-person.
I've never commented on this one way or the other...i've just stated
that basically, I, and many other people, have seen my stuff get
signed. Do you know anyone who's watched your stuff get signed? again,
this can go back to the writing to lesser named celebrities. but
there's always been someone who's watched my stuff get signed, and most
likely, it wasn't just me.
He insists that everything TTM is fake because you don't see them sign
but thats exactly what hes doing, judging autographs sometimes with out
seeing them.
that's just never happened. I said, MOST, and i don't backpeddle or
change my answers halfway through. I stick to this...
John Travolta said a couple years ago in an interview that I have on
tape somewhere in my 3000+tape collection that he signed when he has
time.
i'd love to see that tape. but my comment wasn't from an interview. I
was standing there when it came out of his mouth. someone asked him why
his stuff in the mail looks NOTHING like his inperson signature and he
flat out says he doesn't have time and that his sister and family take
care of that for him. and this was long enough ago that it's been 10
years. i don't believe the tape, and if he did say it, it was baloney
just like when i read in Beckett Magazine that Isiah Thomas signs
everything because he was dissappointed when Dr. J wouldn't sign for
him and he'd never turn anyone down. Meanwhile, during my several year
span of getting basketball players (including when i was a kid of 13
years old) Isiah Thomas still eludes me and i've asked several times.
Signing habits change, but that of publicists and studio execs don't.
if it's policy that a celeb doesn't get fan mail, that pretty much is
the status quo.
now all that being said (man this was long and potentially stupid) i
only stated all this because it's quite obvious, that even these lesser
known people are having their mail opened by publicists, agents etc.
and it's becoming a thing with them. if sue is getting notices that the
"celebs" are no longer signing unlicensed material. imagine how many
other people, that you are not getting stuff back, are experiencing the
same thing. like i had stated before you folks goe me off the subject,
Warner Bros. has a bery big beef with unlicensed stuff and they insist
their stars not sign it. Heck, the guy playing Superman is already
turning down unlicensed stuff when his publicist is around, and usually
when she isn't. Brandon Routh hasn't done a thing in his career as of
yet, meanwhile, he's already tough, as a result of studio people
shaping his head (and trying to mold his career) if this is a problem
for some basically unknow like him, imagine the hundreds of other young
and new actors that a studio, publicists and other folks have their
hands into.. does it really make it THAT HARD to realize that there's a
lot of value in what i've been saying???

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:21:53 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote:

once an item is signed, it's a piece of memorabilia
again, no it's not. It's still an unlicensed photo with a signature on
it. If the head of a studio saw it in a flea market say, they'd
probably confiscate it... it's unlicensed signed or not.

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:21:53 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote:

IT"S fricking LAW. the judge actually stated
that once a player signs it, he/she has given permission to do with it
whatever they way
This is such a freaking (not frickin) lie barefoot. PROVE this.
First, because an actor signed it means squat. The actor doesn't own
the rights to it necessarily. NOBODY in the Star Wars realm has
rights to any image from that film. NOBODY. Same with most movie
shots. What I suggest before you post crap like this, is for you to
actually PROVE what you are saying.

Why in the world did my header so up on those two posts and not barefoots??


"Sue H" wrote in message
...


IT"S fricking LAW. the judge actually stated
that once a player signs it, he/she has given permission to do with it
whatever they way
This is such a freaking (not frickin) lie barefoot. PROVE this.
First, because an actor signed it means squat. The actor doesn't own
the rights to it necessarily. NOBODY in the Star Wars realm has
rights to any image from that film. NOBODY. Same with most movie
shots. What I suggest before you post crap like this, is for you to
actually PROVE what you are saying.

I want to clear this up to everyone with PROOF. so this is in
regards to Barefoots last post. Please read so everyone gets CORRECT
information. I don't want people mislead because Barefoot posts
incessantly on the subject.

Press kits have stuff on them whether it be a copyright symbol or
something else. Press kits are made for PRESS distribution only.
Electronic press kit copying (either the disk itself or making photos)
is illegal too. Ebay is only allowing them to be sold because nobody
has sued them yet. But make no mistake, like the photos you sell,
this too can't be sold and distributed. Barefoot, NEVER quote crap
like "Ebay allows it" because you know that's crap. Just because it's
sold on there doesn't make it legal and in essence, theoretically a
lawyer could say you bought stolen goods!!! I'll prove my point and
blow your ass out of the water. Here ya go...DIRECT FROM MY PRESSKITS
(random years 1960s, 1970's, 1990's, 2001)

1) Pressbook for "I wanna Hold Your Hand" says Copyright Universal
Studios, Inc. and on the photos, Copyright 1979 Universal City
Studios, Inc
2) Romeo and Juliet copyright 1968 by Paramount Pictures Corporation,
All rights reserved.
3) Rising Sun Copyright 1993 Twentieth Century Fox and Photo credit
Sidney Baldwin and inside the folder it says "For PROMOTIONAL USE
ONLY" Not for sale.
4) Moulin Rouge copyright 2001 Twentieth Century Fox. All Rights
Reserved; Permission is granted to newspapers and periodicals to
reproduce the photograph in articles publicizing the distribution of
the Motion Picture. All other use is strictly prohibited, Including
sale, duplication or other transfer of the material. Printed in the
USA.
5) The Pagemaster. Copyright 1994 Twentieth Century Fox. All rights
reserved. Permission is hereby granted to newspapers and other
periodicals to reproduce this photograph for publicity or advertising
except for the endorsement of products. This must not be sold, leased
or given away. Printed in the USA.

I have a couple more, but you get the point I hope. You saying
there's nothing on them is bull****. They all have something on them
in some form.

Here's one hint for you Barefoot. You need to learn to write a little
better. You can do this three ways.
1) do not state things so emphatically
2) stop using words like "always", "Never" etc.
3) sometimes, when you are speaking of things like the law, you might
think of looking things up, or at least opening things like press kits
and reading them. Because not doing so makes your arguments wrong and
therefore people don't trust you after.

Lastly, on the subject of "secretarials" I would like to address one
statement: The "so many hands before a celeb gets to it" comment you
made is crap too. I have had a few people comment to me things like
"my agent gave me this today". Which means It went from the mail room
to the agent and then to the celeb. If the celeb has an assistant
(and ONLY A-LIST big name celebs can afford to so you are
over-generalizing) it will go to them first to do whatever. At most
it goes to three people. Sometimes it even skips the agent and goes
into a box for the celeb. So the average piece of fan mail is 2-3
people, before the celeb with 3 only for "richer" celebs. Again, your
speak of crap you don't know anything about.


On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:21:53 GMT, "SBFan2000"
wrote:

Way to long and redundant to read but I'll comment on what I read. (Got to
4, then the major redundances kick in.) :-) Of the numerous presskits I
have almost all that I have say "Copyright, All Rights Reserved" that means
no copying. only one set I have (Ernest Goes to Camp) says "Permission is
Granted to Newpapers and Magazine to reproduce these pictures as long as it
includes "Beanu Vista, All Rights Reserved" Are you a newspaper or
magazine? I do agree that screen captures are illegal but so is copying ANY
copyrighted material without permission from the copyright holder. Hence
the words "Copy" and "Right."

And who ever claimed Sue had to much time on her hand. Take tomorrow off
work and read this post. Come on barefoot the length of this is nuts. :-)

"barefoot" wrote in message
roups.com...
alright...now i'm just going to call you people DUMB. I'll spell it out
for the stupid people so that i don't have to repeat myself again.
i'll start with my own comments and follow up with your stupid ones...
1) NOTHING i sell is licensed. It's true. No arguing there...BUT.
1a)once an item is signed, it's a piece of memorabilia, and the
licensed/unlicensed thing goes out the windowThis was an actual court
case, I think in Ohio, but it was with the NHL Players association. And
a Judge Ruled on this. THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO RIGHT MY OWN SIDE AND
MAKE YOURS TO BE LESS..IT"S fricking LAW. the judge actually stated
that once a player signs it, he/she has given permission to do with it
whatever they way. After this point, players like Patrick Roy started
checking for the NHLPA logos on stuff they were signing and turning
down stuff that they didn't see a logo on. Then some basketball players
started doing the same thing. and if you see players doing private
signings, EVERYTHING is licensed. this transfers over to celebrities as
well. as long as it's signed, it's different than if it's not...so,
from sue i'll answer this.
So you're telling me that YOU can reprint any copyrighted material and
sell it but I can't copy a photo from a DVD I paid for, for personal
use?
YES, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TELLING YOU. i haven't contradicted
anything. I'm not saying that your stuff from your dvd's is wrong. BUT
IT CLEARLY STATES ON YOUR DVD THAT ANY (wish i could make that look
bold) REPRODUCTION OR RETRANSMISSION IS PROHIBITED. don't stare at your
screen like i'm an idiot because guess what.
2) there is nothing about not reproducing the images as making a photo
directly from a press kit is basically promotion- at my cost. there
is NOT ONE THING ON MY PRESS KITS THAT SAY ANTHING TO THE CONTRARY. in
fact, press ktis are readily available all over the internet for
free...which is why you see way more forgeries on ebay and other places
from movie stills than you did say, 4 years ago. there are plenty of
web sites where you can just pull the photos from the kits and no one
cares...they aren't necessarily as nice or as clean as the ones from
the press kits, but it's all the same thing basically. any idiot with
photoshop (that includes myself) can find anything from movies even
BEFORE they come out, BEFORE THE PREMIERE EVEN. all that a studio can
do is have the stuff veroed off ebay if there is a problem. and like i
stated before in my last post, ebay isn't going to argue...they just
pull it. a lawsuit would bring much more harm to their business than
anything, and in all the stuff that you had to agree to to be an ebay
seller, you basically signed over your rights to argue back.
3) and this all goes down to the publicists and studio execs putting
their hands into everything, even taking stuff away from their talent.
if the talent doesn't stand up for the stuff, then you really have no
choices. but talent has so much on their plates, they don't care about
studio fan mail issues, or fan mail in general unless it finds their
way to them directly. this is totally true. which is why i stated what
i stated next.
4)another reason why
i say that most of the TTM's are secretarial...the stuff people send to
a "celebrity" goes throug

elves. stop
trying to brush it off as me being a loudmouth and look at the
facts...YOU AREN'T getting as much stuff back as you used to, you are
getting letters saying that celebrities can't sign unlicensed
stuff...and that goes back to my above statement. IT'S TRUE. you can
argue till you are blue in the face over this if you'd like. and i'll
keep coming up with anecdotes and evidence to the contrary. i didn't
say EVERYTHING is secretarial, i even went so far as to say that Matt
Kenseth took a pen from my wife so he could sign his mail. and everyday
at spring training, i see dozens of plpayers walking out of the
clubhouse with their fan mail in tow. I'm still saying that it's still
a VERY LOW PERCENTAGE of the case...which is where i stated the next
thing...
5) ROBERT PATRICK just said that he has "someone who handles that." so
does that mean if you write to robert patrick, you re going to get a
fake??? not necessarily, but i bet odds are that you are not getting
robert patrick's autograph...if someone like robert patrick (i know he
had his moment) has someone handling his minimal fan mail, imagine
who's really not taking care of their mail at all.
COME ON IT'S ROBERT PATRICK. Do you really believe that if he's got
someone handing his fan mail, that Robin Williams is signing his stuff?
Just because I don't have a story about Robin. Do you think that Heath
Ledger is signing his. How about the tens of thousands of other
celebrities like Brendan Fraser, Ali Landry, John Cena (actually, i
would belive that Cena would sign his mail. and anyone with any kind of
star status has any time on their hands to sign your stuff...I never
said all of them, and i would believe that some people like heidi klum,
or Elle Macpherson have the time, and LOVE to sign for their fans...But
do you really believe that Morgan Freeman, who says that he doesn't
sign autographs AT ALL, really signs his mail but leave 3 kids with
scraps of paper out in the cold ? come on, it only takes common sense
to realize that it's not liklely.
i then posted something very nice and encouraging.
6) i have posted on here that i've seen celebrities carrying their fan
mail with the intention of signing it. but it's few and far between.
I've also been privy to being the bat boy and spring training
equiptment gopher for the san diego padres when i was in middle and
high school. and i still have plenty of people's (probably some of
yours) autograph requests from guys like TONY GWYNN. he gave me ALL of
his fan mail at the end of the season with the explicit instructions to
keep all the baseball cards and throw the letters out. now if you know
baseball signings in the nineties- you'll know Tony Gwynn was extremely
nice about signing in person at the ballpark. Super Cool. you'd think
you'd get something back from him- a fan club invite, an already
preprinted pic like nolan ryan would send, or something his grandmother
signed - Jeff George used to laugh about that one, since he had his
grandmother sign his mail....but for 3 years, you got NOTHING BACK, and
i still have all those cards. some very nice psa'd rookie cards that
are valued pretty highly too- people send stupid crud in the mail as
well.
so aside from the people with small roles on sci fi television shows,
and people who are generally nice in person...please tell me how any of
this is BIASED INFORMATION. this is very public info that you can
probably look up (at least the top portion about the judge and the
licensed/unlicensed info). so i'm actually tired of people just reading
bits and voicing their opinion with nothing to back it up...so let's
address the accusations...
from sue
Seems you interpret what you want so it suits your case and nobody
else. i didn't interpret s@#$!. this is written on your stuff that
you are printing photos from...it's implicit, and it says it before AND
after the movie, just to drive the point home. i don't copy anything, i
have press kits with digital proofs inside- on a disc. i don't make any
copies, these are actually considered originals.
would venture to say us standing side by side in a courtroom, YOU
would go to jail in about 30 seconds, while technically I might be
guilty too, but I'd have a lot more defense than you!
seems to me that what i have in my hand IS NOT COPYRIGHTED. you are
printing from a source that says implicity with all the beautiful FBI
fonts and logos that what you are doing is against the law. you aer
KNOWINGLY breaking the law. whereas, my stuff, for now, does sit in a
grey area. in the future, this may no be the case, but for now, it is.
so for right now, they could come in to your house and take you away.
RIGHT NOW.
I would say 95% or more of my ttm successes are legit. Then again, I
am not contacting Alist celebs. It's only Alist celebs pretty much
where this secretarial thing happens
there is not any list in the world that has Robert Patrick on their A
list...i think that's enough said. you have stated in the past that you
get real responses, not just an autograph scribbles on your material,
it's all well and good, but i didn't say that everything is
secretarial. it just never happened. but i do believe that 90-95 % of
all the autographs going out TTM are. because you (and alot of people
that read and post here) write to smaller actors and actresses and
other celebrities, knowing that your chances are better...but in the
whole world, more people are writing to the big names and Never getting
anything back, or writing to some lame ass fan club and getting
secretarial and pre printed material back and pawning it off as
authentic. so i do think it's ok to lump it all into one category
because that's the way it is...
so, on to SBFAN2000
As much as I used to respect barefoots opinion this 'most TTM are
fake" is really turning me off.
sorry to burst your bubble, it's true. i think i've more than proven my
point. now your personal collection may differ as like i said before,
you are probalby writing to lesser known people knowing that your
chances are better.
Its becoming quite transparent that he just thinks he's hot ****
because he can get stuff in-person.
I've never commented on this one way or the other...i've just stated
that basically, I, and many other people, have seen my stuff get
signed. Do you know anyone who's watched your stuff get signed? again,
this can go back to the writing to lesser named celebrities. but
there's always been someone who's watched my stuff get signed, and most
likely, it wasn't just me.
He insists that everything TTM is fake because you don't see them sign
but thats exactly what hes doing, judging autographs sometimes with out
seeing them.
that's just never happened. I said, MOST, and i don't backpeddle or
change my answers halfway through. I stick to this...
John Travolta said a couple years ago in an interview that I have on
tape somewhere in my 3000+tape collection that he signed when he has
time.
i'd love to see that tape. but my comment wasn't from an interview. I
was standing there when it came out of his mouth. someone asked him why
his stuff in the mail looks NOTHING like his inperson signature and he
flat out says he doesn't have time and that his sister and family take
care of that for him. and this was long enough ago that it's been 10
years. i don't believe the tape, and if he did say it, it was baloney
just like when i read in Beckett Magazine that Isiah Thomas signs
everything because he was dissappointed when Dr. J wouldn't sign for
him and he'd never turn anyone down. Meanwhile, during my several year
span of getting basketball players (including when i was a kid of 13
years old) Isiah Thomas still eludes me and i've asked several times.
Signing habits change, but that of publicists and studio execs don't.
if it's policy that a celeb doesn't get fan mail, that pretty much is
the status quo.
now all that being said (man this was long and potentially stupid) i
only stated all this because it's quite obvious, that even these lesser
known people are having their mail opened by publicists, agents etc.
and it's becoming a thing with them. if sue is getting notices that the
"celebs" are no longer signing unlicensed material. imagine how many
other people, that you are not getting stuff back, are experiencing the
same thing. like i had stated before you folks goe me off the subject,
Warner Bros. has a bery big beef with unlicensed stuff and they insist
their stars not sign it. Heck, the guy playing Superman is already
turning down unlicensed stuff when his publicist is around, and usually
when she isn't. Brandon Routh hasn't done a thing in his career as of
yet, meanwhile, he's already tough, as a result of studio people
shaping his head (and trying to mold his career) if this is a problem
for some basically unknow like him, imagine the hundreds of other young
and new actors that a studio, publicists and other folks have their
hands into.. does it really make it THAT HARD to realize that there's a
lot of value in what i've been saying???

And of those 200, how many are PP or Autopen? My guess is more than
half right? Leaving a small minority, probably 1% being secretarial?

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:19:53 -0800, "yankeefan"
wrote:

In all honesty, I seem to have more success through the mail than the rest
of you here in this newsgroup, based upon what I've been reading. For
example, out of the 4,000 autograph requests I sent out in 2005, I received
back 75% (little over 3,000) with authentic autographs. 800 are still out
there, with the remaining 200 being secretarial, preprint/facsimile, autopen
or stamped. In order to prove Barefoot doesn't know what he's talking
about, I am ready to post scans in a binary group if necessary with the ones
I have received.

"SBFan2000" wrote in message
news:xB0Sf.10685$%e1.4719@trnddc05...
AMEN!

As much as I used to respect barefoots opinion this 'most TTM are fake" is
really turning me off. Its becoming quite transparent that he just
thinks
hes hot **** because he can get stuff in-person. (IMHO) I won't lie, I
would love to be able to get the autographs I want in-person but some of
us
save up just to afford to send photos let alone trying to travel to all
these different conventions and premieres.

He e-mailed me in the past about stuff on my site and I conceded some the
first autos I bought were possibly fake and I change the listing on the
site. During those emails he was reasonable and I made an effort to do
the
same. However, this constant ranting about TTM collecting have just about
got him plonked during the last several fights. He insists that
everything
TTM is fake because you don't see them sign but thats exactly what hes
doing, judging autographs sometimes with out seeing them. A celebrity
saying he doesn't sign doesn't mean that everything is fake. It just
decreases the odds. Celebrity signatures and signing habits change over
time. I hate to bring up that infamous name but John Travolta said a
couple
years ago in an interview that I have on tape somewhere in my 3000+tape
collection that he signed when he has time. But according to barefoot he
said in another interview that he never signs. Its not that I don't
believe
him necessarily, this just proves my point that signing habits change!

That all said, It doesn't surprise me that ALOT of the A listers are going
to send secretarial if at all. Its pretty obvious that someone like Jim
Carrey isn't going to give a ****. But some of the more unknowns and
"has-beens" are going to give much better results. Of the last two I sent
too, one returned an extra photo answering a question I asked with a two
page letter and the other I'm currently corresponding with via e-mail.
They
must just be going through alot of trouble for a secretarial?


"Sue H" wrote in message
...
PS It always seems that you are always adding ttm successes are
secretarial. We weren't even on that subject, but again it's brought
up. So here we go round and round. I would say 95% or more of my ttm
successes are legit. Then again, I am not contacting Alist celebs ...
you really need to tread lightly here. It's only Alist celebs pretty
much where this secretarial thing happens (occasionally elsewhere, but
very little). You keep lumping everything into one category. You
just can't do that.

On 15 Mar 2006 10:40:34 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

dude...NOTHING i sell is liscensed...the unsigned photos...there's no
law against it...but if a production company has my stuff veroed
(usually warner bros. items) then i have no legs to stand on...
now..and here's a true legal thing...
once an item is signed, it's a piece of memorabilia, and the
licensed/unlicensed thing goes out the window...because the liscensing
is an individual thing. the person signing is basically giving you
permission to use it in any way you want to at that point. that's been
the case in sports litigation for years. it's the main reason why some
players will only sign licensed photos ( jeff gordon is one, and
apparently, that's only an in the mail thing- cause he signs unlicensed
items in person, but limits it- he's actually told me that if i had
liscensed photos, he'd sign more).
now, on my press kits, there is nothing about not reproducing the
images as making a photo directly from a press kit is basically
promotion- at my cost. but if they push the isue, yes, i have a
problem. i don't think there's anything they can do to me legally. but
they can keep me from selling..and companies like officialpix actually
has the licensing for star wars photos and can actually make a real
issue of it if they want to. so i stopped selling star wars photos on
ebay.
it's all quite grey. but i am sure ebay is just trying to keep a watch
on any legal problems...like i always say, they may be a super rich
company, but they are 1 major lawsuit away from being shut down
completely. i think ebay is treading a fine line as it is. if they get
sued for something substantial, the whole structure would come down as
lawsuits would fly in from everywhere where someone feels they've been
done wrong as a result of an ebay transaction...so if they shut it
down, they will...but i thought this thread was more that you were
getting notices saying that people weren't allowed to sign unlicensed
material...not an ebay thing. and this all goes down to the publicists
and studio execs putting their hands into everything, even taking stuff
away from their talent. if the talent doesn't stand up for the stuff,
then you really have no choices. but talent has so much on their
plates, they don't care about studio fan mail issues, or fan mail in
general unless it finds their way to them directly. another reason why
i say that most of the TTM's are secretarial...the stuff people send to
a "celebrity" goes through so many hands before it finally arrives at
celebrity A, that there's a strong possibility that no one wants to
bother celebrity A with it, so they take care of it themselves.
thinking it's part of the duty they perform to celebrity A. i mean, if
you want to look at the legit arguments i've put up in the past saying
that most TTM are fake, i think that on a daily basis, someone else
posts up a reason that what i said is true. it's just that when i say
something, someone else just wants to fly off the handle and doesn't
think of things rationally...
let's just put it this way, ROBERT PATRICK just said that he has
"someone who handles thaat." so does that mean if you write to robert
patrick, you re going to get a fake??? not necessarily, but i bet odd
are that you are not getting robert patrick's autograph...if someone
like robert patrick (i know he had his moment) has someone handling his
minimal fan mail, imagine who's really not taking care of their mail at
all...
that's not saying all of it is...i have posted on here that i've seen
celebrities carrying their fan mail with the intention of signing it (i
think i posted that matt kenseth once asked my wife for a sharpie so he
could take care of his fan mail that night before he went to bed- it
was late and staples and all that were probably closed at that point).
sorry to change the point of the thread...but i think you can easily
see my point...you can't guarantee that something is real if you didn't
see it getting signed. especially TTM signatures, cause there's no one
out there watching that.
mike

Man I wish I could afford 4000 a year. 400 a year would be pushing it for
me. :-) Of course if I could afford sending that many out I'd be doing some
traveling to get in-persons! ;-)


"yankeefan" wrote in message
...
In all honesty, I seem to have more success through the mail than the rest
of you here in this newsgroup, based upon what I've been reading. For
example, out of the 4,000 autograph requests I sent out in 2005, I
received
back 75% (little over 3,000) with authentic autographs. 800 are still out
there, with the remaining 200 being secretarial, preprint/facsimile,
autopen
or stamped. In order to prove Barefoot doesn't know what he's talking
about, I am ready to post scans in a binary group if necessary with the
ones
I have received.

"SBFan2000" wrote in message
news:xB0Sf.10685$%e1.4719@trnddc05...
AMEN!

As much as I used to respect barefoots opinion this 'most TTM are fake"
is
really turning me off. Its becoming quite transparent that he just
thinks
hes hot **** because he can get stuff in-person. (IMHO) I won't lie, I
would love to be able to get the autographs I want in-person but some of
us
save up just to afford to send photos let alone trying to travel to all
these different conventions and premieres.

He e-mailed me in the past about stuff on my site and I conceded some
the
first autos I bought were possibly fake and I change the listing on the
site. During those emails he was reasonable and I made an effort to do
the
same. However, this constant ranting about TTM collecting have just
about
got him plonked during the last several fights. He insists that
everything
TTM is fake because you don't see them sign but thats exactly what hes
doing, judging autographs sometimes with out seeing them. A celebrity
saying he doesn't sign doesn't mean that everything is fake. It just
decreases the odds. Celebrity signatures and signing habits change over
time. I hate to bring up that infamous name but John Travolta said a
couple
years ago in an interview that I have on tape somewhere in my 3000+tape
collection that he signed when he has time. But according to barefoot
he
said in another interview that he never signs. Its not that I don't
believe
him necessarily, this just proves my point that signing habits change!

That all said, It doesn't surprise me that ALOT of the A listers are
going
to send secretarial if at all. Its pretty obvious that someone like Jim
Carrey isn't going to give a ****. But some of the more unknowns and
"has-beens" are going to give much better results. Of the last two I
sent
too, one returned an extra photo answering a question I asked with a two
page letter and the other I'm currently corresponding with via e-mail.
They
must just be going through alot of trouble for a secretarial?


"Sue H" wrote in message
...
PS It always seems that you are always adding ttm successes are
secretarial. We weren't even on that subject, but again it's brought
up. So here we go round and round. I would say 95% or more of my ttm
successes are legit. Then again, I am not contacting Alist celebs ...
you really need to tread lightly here. It's only Alist celebs pretty
much where this secretarial thing happens (occasionally elsewhere, but
very little). You keep lumping everything into one category. You
just can't do that.

On 15 Mar 2006 10:40:34 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

dude...NOTHING i sell is liscensed...the unsigned photos...there's no
law against it...but if a production company has my stuff veroed
(usually warner bros. items) then i have no legs to stand on...
now..and here's a true legal thing...
once an item is signed, it's a piece of memorabilia, and the
licensed/unlicensed thing goes out the window...because the
liscensing
is an individual thing. the person signing is basically giving you
permission to use it in any way you want to at that point. that's
been
the case in sports litigation for years. it's the main reason why
some
players will only sign licensed photos ( jeff gordon is one, and
apparently, that's only an in the mail thing- cause he signs
unlicensed
items in person, but limits it- he's actually told me that if i had
liscensed photos, he'd sign more).
now, on my press kits, there is nothing about not reproducing the
images as making a photo directly from a press kit is basically
promotion- at my cost. but if they push the isue, yes, i have a
problem. i don't think there's anything they can do to me legally.
but
they can keep me from selling..and companies like officialpix
actually
has the licensing for star wars photos and can actually make a real
issue of it if they want to. so i stopped selling star wars photos on
ebay.
it's all quite grey. but i am sure ebay is just trying to keep a
watch
on any legal problems...like i always say, they may be a super rich
company, but they are 1 major lawsuit away from being shut down
completely. i think ebay is treading a fine line as it is. if they
get
sued for something substantial, the whole structure would come down
as
lawsuits would fly in from everywhere where someone feels they've
been
done wrong as a result of an ebay transaction...so if they shut it
down, they will...but i thought this thread was more that you were
getting notices saying that people weren't allowed to sign
unlicensed
material...not an ebay thing. and this all goes down to the
publicists
and studio execs putting their hands into everything, even taking
stuff
away from their talent. if the talent doesn't stand up for the stuff,
then you really have no choices. but talent has so much on their
plates, they don't care about studio fan mail issues, or fan mail in
general unless it finds their way to them directly. another reason
why
i say that most of the TTM's are secretarial...the stuff people send
to
a "celebrity" goes through so many hands before it finally arrives at
celebrity A, that there's a strong possibility that no one wants to
bother celebrity A with it, so they take care of it themselves.
thinking it's part of the duty they perform to celebrity A. i mean,
if
you want to look at the legit arguments i've put up in the past
saying
that most TTM are fake, i think that on a daily basis, someone else
posts up a reason that what i said is true. it's just that when i say
something, someone else just wants to fly off the handle and doesn't
think of things rationally...
let's just put it this way, ROBERT PATRICK just said that he has
"someone who handles thaat." so does that mean if you write to robert
patrick, you re going to get a fake??? not necessarily, but i bet odd
are that you are not getting robert patrick's autograph...if someone
like robert patrick (i know he had his moment) has someone handling
his
minimal fan mail, imagine who's really not taking care of their mail
at
all...
that's not saying all of it is...i have posted on here that i've seen
celebrities carrying their fan mail with the intention of signing it
(i
think i posted that matt kenseth once asked my wife for a sharpie so
he
could take care of his fan mail that night before he went to bed- it
was late and staples and all that were probably closed at that
point).
sorry to change the point of the thread...but i think you can easily
see my point...you can't guarantee that something is real if you
didn't
see it getting signed. especially TTM signatures, cause there's no
one
out there watching that.
mike