Noodler's ink question

How resistant to fading from sun and/or time are these
inks? Are some more archival than others?

My instincts would say yes, some will be better than others. I haven't
done any tests myself. I assume that the black, and the other colours
that are advertised as permanent (the black plus the more expensive
ones, to put it bluntly), will be the most durable. For the ultimate
resource on questions like this, go to
http://www.inksampler.com/

To an extent, the answer depends on what you mean by "archival". If
you mean it literally (i.e., the document will spend most of its life
locked away in a dark, dry file drawer), then just about any of the
Noodler's inks -- and most others, too -- will fit the bill. But if
you're also concerned about water and UV resistance, some Noodler's may
fare better than others. In the non-waterproof line, I believe that
Blue-Black, Aircorps Blue-Black, Walnut, and Zhivago have a rep for
bulletproofness (and passed Greg Clark's bulletproof test). Nathan
has also mentioned Navy as one of the more water-resistant regular inks
(and, in my experience, it is). The fraudproof Noodler's (Black, et
al.) are sold as bulletproof, and they certainly appear to be. But
let's talk again this time next century. :-)

--
Viseguy

On 17 Jul 2005 21:35:32 -0700, "Viseguy" wrote:

To an extent, the answer depends on what you mean by "archival".

Archival not only means that the ink will survive, but also that the
paper it's on won't be damaged by it. Classic iron gall ink is as
permanent as you might wish for, but has unwelcome effects on the paper.

Andy Dingley wrote:
Archival not only means that the ink will survive, but also that the
paper it's on won't be damaged by it.

True, and in that respect Noodler's have the neutral pH in their favor.
Though, now, I wonder.... once the ink dries on paper, is acidity (or
basicity) a factor any more? Any chemists out there?

--
Viseguy

I think humidity in the environment means that this can matter - but
only over a very long time.

On 25 Jul 2005 19:15:19 -0700, "Viseguy" wrote:

True, and in that respect Noodler's have the neutral pH in their favor.

Neutral pH isn't really a guarantee on its own. Nor is "acid free"
paper. Unless you're working with colour photographs (when alkalinity is
as bad as acid) then the paper materials should be "buffered" (i.e. an
excess of a base) to guard against future acids.

Though, now, I wonder.... once the ink dries on paper, is acidity (or
basicity) a factor any more?

Yes. Many problematic acid sources aren't even acid when they're first
formed, they become acid as a result of some later process. And there's
always sufficient moisture later on.

Andy Dingley wrote:
...
Yes. Many problematic acid sources aren't even acid when they're first
formed, they become acid as a result of some later process. And there's
always sufficient moisture later on.

Interesting. So how can any ink or paper claim to be "archival", and
how reliable is any such claim?

I went Googling for an answer, but didn't immediately find one.
However, I did find the following item from the Library of Congress
(U.S.), which seems to articulate criteria for an ink (in this case,
stamping pad ink) that the LOC would deem to be archival:

"Manuscript Marking Inks Now Available"
http://www.loc.gov/preserv/inks.html

It says, in part: "The ideal ink for marking paper-based materials
should have all of the following properties. It should be non-fading
(i.e., stable for at least one hundred years as measured by accelerated
aging and light exposure tests) and not removeable with solvents or
bleaches. It should be nondestructive to paper and should neither bleed
nor migrate into surrounding or adjacent paper. It should have a
neutral or slightly alkaline pH (pH 7.0-8.0). Finally , it should be
slow to dry on the stamp pad but fast to dry on the document."

It would be very interesting to know how Noodler's Black and the other
Noodler's "eternal" inks stack up to this standard. I guess we will
know 99 years from now.

--
Viseguy

It would seem to me that a neutral PH, resistance to fading
from exposure to light and being waterproof is as much as we
can expect from the maker. Obviously, there's no control
over the paper the ink's placed on. The newer low or no
sulphide papers should hold up well. Now, if I can just
figure out a way to live another hundred years or two, I'll
be able to form an opinion.

Larry Jones



On 31 Jul 2005 19:02:50 -0700, "Viseguy"
wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:
...
Yes. Many problematic acid sources aren't even acid when they're first
formed, they become acid as a result of some later process. And there's
always sufficient moisture later on.

Interesting. So how can any ink or paper claim to be "archival", and
how reliable is any such claim?

I went Googling for an answer, but didn't immediately find one.
However, I did find the following item from the Library of Congress
(U.S.), which seems to articulate criteria for an ink (in this case,
stamping pad ink) that the LOC would deem to be archival:

"Manuscript Marking Inks Now Available"
http://www.loc.gov/preserv/inks.html

It says, in part: "The ideal ink for marking paper-based materials
should have all of the following properties. It should be non-fading
(i.e., stable for at least one hundred years as measured by accelerated
aging and light exposure tests) and not removeable with solvents or
bleaches. It should be nondestructive to paper and should neither bleed
nor migrate into surrounding or adjacent paper. It should have a
neutral or slightly alkaline pH (pH 7.0-8.0). Finally , it should be
slow to dry on the stamp pad but fast to dry on the document."

It would be very interesting to know how Noodler's Black and the other
Noodler's "eternal" inks stack up to this standard. I guess we will
know 99 years from now.

J. L. Jones wrote:
... Now, if I can just
figure out a way to live another hundred years or two, I'll
be able to form an opinion.

If you find a way, please post here (and in alt.live.forever). :-) But
seriously, I would like to know what "accelerated aging and light
exposure tests" the LOC uses, and how they compare to Greg Clark's
"bulletproof" experiments. In case the fountain of youth does not gush
forth during our lifetimes....

--
Viseguy