New eBay policy on coins

This or something similar to it may have already been discussed here,
but, as reported on one of the lists, eBay has a new policy about
coins:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.js...read=410197183

Of interest, eBay has reversed itself in at least one way. Initially,
it let you describe why you were reporting that a listing was in
violation of eBay's policies. Then it removed your ability to do this.
Now it again lets you do this. Time will tell if eBay has changed its
polices about not reading the bulk of these complaints.

It's particularly unhelpful for eBay to prohibit the sale of coins by
people who claim no knowledge of their authenticity yet to refuse to
stop these auctions. Some of these auctions no doubt are from noncoin
people who indeed did inherit old coins from grandpa. But some are
undoubtedly from scammers creating the impression that the fakes coins
they're deliberately selling as authentic just may be authentic -- who
knows?! -- and you, that's right, you, just might get an incredible
bargain.

eBay hasn't changed its policy regarding the sale of counterfeits as
counterfeits. It still prohibits them, though they're currently sold
on eBay every day, often openly described as counterfeits, sometimes
described as replicas. But eBay has gotten the legalities wrong in its
"Laws on counterfeit coins or paper money" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#4

eBay's biggest mistake is not distinguishing among current
counterfeits and contemporary and ancient forgeries. It also mixes up
the selling of counterfeits as counterfeits with the manufacture and
passing of them. It says, "U.S. federal laws strictly prohibit the
sale of counterfeit coins or paper money," but to support this, it
points to Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25, Section 486 of the U.S. Code.
This statute doesn't refer to the sale of counterfeits as counterfeits
at all, whether current or ancient, just to the making and passing of
counterfeits "intended for use as current money."

eBay makes the completely boneheaded statement, "All counterfeit coins
or numismatic material are strictly illegal...", in its "Frequently
Asked Questions on Selling Coins" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#5

It again is failing to distinguish among current counterfeits and
contemporary and ancient forgeries. Ancient counterfeits coins, or
fourees, are sold by the most respected U.S. and European auction
houses, and I can't imagine even the most sanctimonious
anticounterfeit crusader suggesting that the sale and possession of
these 2,000-year-old items are against the law.

I'm sure the self-appointed legal eagles here will have a field day
with this, which will produce startlingly new and useful insights.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:04:12 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

I'm sure the self-appointed legal eagles here will have a field day
with this, which will produce startlingly new and useful insights.



Troll, troll, troll your boat....


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

These are simply typical legalese disclaimers for EBAy to cover their buns,
just in case some government police agency comes after them. IMHO they
really have little or no interest unless is a large company (with lots of
expensive lawyers working for them). Companies like Microsoft, Harley
Davidson, etc. typically have people to watch the auctions to pounce on
those who infringe; Ebay quickly takes action when a big company complains
to them about a auction(s).
Unfortunately, the law enforcement agencies, barely know how to use their
own computers to browse the internet. Then knowing all the laws and
regulations that would pertain to coinage and currency would be the next
daunting task. Finally being a law enforcement person who knows numismatics
and can get numismatic experts to appear in court would be a big job too.
The next problem is who's jurisdiction is it? Who gets to prosecute? These
things go multistate and multi-city very quickly.
Then you have to get different countries involved with their laws and police
if the offender is out of jurisdiction.
So unless some new Congressional laws come out, it's doubtful much can be
done.
If you got the money, sue the pants off of them in civil court. It worked
reasonably well for the music industry.


"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
This or something similar to it may have already been discussed here,
but, as reported on one of the lists, eBay has a new policy about
coins:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.js...read=410197183

Of interest, eBay has reversed itself in at least one way. Initially,
it let you describe why you were reporting that a listing was in
violation of eBay's policies. Then it removed your ability to do this.
Now it again lets you do this. Time will tell if eBay has changed its
polices about not reading the bulk of these complaints.

It's particularly unhelpful for eBay to prohibit the sale of coins by
people who claim no knowledge of their authenticity yet to refuse to
stop these auctions. Some of these auctions no doubt are from noncoin
people who indeed did inherit old coins from grandpa. But some are
undoubtedly from scammers creating the impression that the fakes coins
they're deliberately selling as authentic just may be authentic -- who
knows?! -- and you, that's right, you, just might get an incredible
bargain.

eBay hasn't changed its policy regarding the sale of counterfeits as
counterfeits. It still prohibits them, though they're currently sold
on eBay every day, often openly described as counterfeits, sometimes
described as replicas. But eBay has gotten the legalities wrong in its
"Laws on counterfeit coins or paper money" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#4

eBay's biggest mistake is not distinguishing among current
counterfeits and contemporary and ancient forgeries. It also mixes up
the selling of counterfeits as counterfeits with the manufacture and
passing of them. It says, "U.S. federal laws strictly prohibit the
sale of counterfeit coins or paper money," but to support this, it
points to Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25, Section 486 of the U.S. Code.
This statute doesn't refer to the sale of counterfeits as counterfeits
at all, whether current or ancient, just to the making and passing of
counterfeits "intended for use as current money."

eBay makes the completely boneheaded statement, "All counterfeit coins
or numismatic material are strictly illegal...", in its "Frequently
Asked Questions on Selling Coins" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#5

It again is failing to distinguish among current counterfeits and
contemporary and ancient forgeries. Ancient counterfeits coins, or
fourees, are sold by the most respected U.S. and European auction
houses, and I can't imagine even the most sanctimonious
anticounterfeit crusader suggesting that the sale and possession of
these 2,000-year-old items are against the law.

I'm sure the self-appointed legal eagles here will have a field day
with this, which will produce startlingly new and useful insights.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
This or something similar to it may have already been discussed here,
but, as reported on one of the lists, eBay has a new policy about
coins:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.js...read=410197183

Of interest, eBay has reversed itself in at least one way. Initially,
it let you describe why you were reporting that a listing was in
violation of eBay's policies. Then it removed your ability to do this.
Now it again lets you do this. Time will tell if eBay has changed its
polices about not reading the bulk of these complaints.

It's particularly unhelpful for eBay to prohibit the sale of coins by
people who claim no knowledge of their authenticity yet to refuse to
stop these auctions. Some of these auctions no doubt are from noncoin
people who indeed did inherit old coins from grandpa. But some are
undoubtedly from scammers creating the impression that the fakes coins
they're deliberately selling as authentic just may be authentic -- who
knows?! -- and you, that's right, you, just might get an incredible
bargain.

eBay hasn't changed its policy regarding the sale of counterfeits as
counterfeits. It still prohibits them, though they're currently sold
on eBay every day, often openly described as counterfeits, sometimes
described as replicas. But eBay has gotten the legalities wrong in its
"Laws on counterfeit coins or paper money" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#4

eBay's biggest mistake is not distinguishing among current
counterfeits and contemporary and ancient forgeries. It also mixes up
the selling of counterfeits as counterfeits with the manufacture and
passing of them. It says, "U.S. federal laws strictly prohibit the
sale of counterfeit coins or paper money," but to support this, it
points to Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25, Section 486 of the U.S. Code.
This statute doesn't refer to the sale of counterfeits as counterfeits
at all, whether current or ancient, just to the making and passing of
counterfeits "intended for use as current money."

eBay makes the completely boneheaded statement, "All counterfeit coins
or numismatic material are strictly illegal...", in its "Frequently
Asked Questions on Selling Coins" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#5

It again is failing to distinguish among current counterfeits and
contemporary and ancient forgeries. Ancient counterfeits coins, or
fourees, are sold by the most respected U.S. and European auction
houses, and I can't imagine even the most sanctimonious
anticounterfeit crusader suggesting that the sale and possession of
these 2,000-year-old items are against the law.

I'm sure the self-appointed legal eagles here will have a field day
with this, which will produce startlingly new and useful insights.


Why do you insist on beating the crap out of this subject? Hasn't it been
thoroughly hashed and rehashed here over the past few months? You've heard
the varied opinions of all who are interested in the topic, yet you seem to
revel in the prospect of stirring the pot further. Your last little
sentence is so typical of your inability to resist baiting those whom you
disagree with. And of course if and when the likely responses come in,
you'll bleat about being the innocent misunderstood party again. Just
talking coins, etc., etc. Jeez, you make me ****y flamejunk sick!

Bruce

Reid Goldsborough wrote:

But eBay has gotten the legalities wrong in its
"Laws on counterfeit coins or paper money" section:

That's your opinion only and one we are all too familiar with the pretzel logic
behind that opinion.

It says, "U.S. federal laws strictly prohibit the
sale of counterfeit coins or paper money," but to support this, it
points to Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25, Section 486 of the U.S. Code.

Go back and read it again....they said it was an EXAMPLE of the counterfeiting
laws, they did not say that particular statute supported their contention.

This statute doesn't refer to the sale of counterfeits as
counterfeits at all....

What's the deal with this new phrase you have come up with...."counterfeits as
counterfeits"? You recently made an absolutely absurd claim in another forum
saying it is legal to sell counterfeits as counterfeits.


++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

"Reid Goldsborough" wrote:

http://mendosus.com/reidisms.html

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:46:51 -0500, "Earl Bollinger"
wrote:

Unfortunately, the law enforcement agencies, barely know how to use their
own computers to browse the internet.

This is a key point, something that we as coin collectors often lose
sight of. Law enforcement is typically not that sophisticated
technologically, though some local, county, and state police
departments have begun to create cybercrime units or have at least one
officer who specializes in this.

Also important is the reality that the Secret Service and law
enforcement in general are much more likely to go after the big guys,
not the petty scammers that predominate on eBay. I know it's not petty
to the victim who's cheated out $500 or $1,000, but it is when you
compare it with multimillion operations involving the counterfeiting
of current currency, where the Secret Service understandably devotes
most of its resources.

So, as I see it, eBay must do a much better job of keeping its own
house in order. A positive sign here is it's cooperating with the ANA.
This could be just empty marketese, its trying to counter negative
publicity about coin scams by saying, "See. We're trying." It has to
put resources behind this for it to work. For one thing, it has to
READ the complaints it gets about individual auctions that break its
own rules. It has to hire enough people to read and act on these
complaints.

There are other things it could do as well. One poster here just
reported that eBay has started to do a better job of canceling
obviously fraudulent coin auctions. Time will tell if this continues
or if eBay reverts to its laissez faire, we're just a venue, just
about anything goes attitude.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

You need to get out more, your counterfeit posts are now extremely
boring as you have grossly overdone it, try posting about something
different and stop the attention seeking, please.

I support your position re counterfeit coins but you are now boring the
pants off me, give a rest for a few months, please. Billy


Reid Goldsborough wrote:

This or something similar to it may have already been discussed here,
but, as reported on one of the lists, eBay has a new policy about
coins:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.js...read=410197183

Of interest, eBay has reversed itself in at least one way. Initially,
it let you describe why you were reporting that a listing was in
violation of eBay's policies. Then it removed your ability to do this.
Now it again lets you do this. Time will tell if eBay has changed its
polices about not reading the bulk of these complaints.

It's particularly unhelpful for eBay to prohibit the sale of coins by
people who claim no knowledge of their authenticity yet to refuse to
stop these auctions. Some of these auctions no doubt are from noncoin
people who indeed did inherit old coins from grandpa. But some are
undoubtedly from scammers creating the impression that the fakes coins
they're deliberately selling as authentic just may be authentic -- who
knows?! -- and you, that's right, you, just might get an incredible
bargain.

eBay hasn't changed its policy regarding the sale of counterfeits as
counterfeits. It still prohibits them, though they're currently sold
on eBay every day, often openly described as counterfeits, sometimes
described as replicas. But eBay has gotten the legalities wrong in its
"Laws on counterfeit coins or paper money" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#4

eBay's biggest mistake is not distinguishing among current
counterfeits and contemporary and ancient forgeries. It also mixes up
the selling of counterfeits as counterfeits with the manufacture and
passing of them. It says, "U.S. federal laws strictly prohibit the
sale of counterfeit coins or paper money," but to support this, it
points to Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25, Section 486 of the U.S. Code.
This statute doesn't refer to the sale of counterfeits as counterfeits
at all, whether current or ancient, just to the making and passing of
counterfeits "intended for use as current money."

eBay makes the completely boneheaded statement, "All counterfeit coins
or numismatic material are strictly illegal...", in its "Frequently
Asked Questions on Selling Coins" section:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...g-coins.html#5

It again is failing to distinguish among current counterfeits and
contemporary and ancient forgeries. Ancient counterfeits coins, or
fourees, are sold by the most respected U.S. and European auction
houses, and I can't imagine even the most sanctimonious
anticounterfeit crusader suggesting that the sale and possession of
these 2,000-year-old items are against the law.

I'm sure the self-appointed legal eagles here will have a field day
with this, which will produce startlingly new and useful insights.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos