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#11
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Bruce Remick wrote:
"Scottishmoney" wrote in message ... "Aladdin Sane" wrote in message news:WflPb.93273$sv6.356046@attbi_s52... Interesting, but was Sitting Bull ever a US citizen? Even today, Indian lands are Soverign entities. -- Quite interesting, but all Native Americans were made citizens of the US with some act in 1926. But some tribes, notably the Five Tribes of Oklahoma became citizens in 1907 when their forcibly annexed and overrun territory was incorporated into the United States as the state of Oklahoma that year. Nowadays many of the Nations are sovereign as you mention, and handle much of their government, which the gamblers pay for in the casinos. In fact I notice that many of them have their own licence plates on their cars etc. I do some contract work for a school on a tribal land in Northern Michigan, it is nice to see they are so self sufficient now, mainly because of the greedy gamblers. ANYONE who bases their local economy on the fortunes of a gambling establishment is literally building a house of cards. Whenever a better one comes along somewhere else and/or they are shut down, that revenue stream and those jobs go bye-bye. Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native Americans? Sigh...... Every 'native' American is a USA citizen (read the Constitution). I was born in Milwaukee, WI and by that fact, am a USA citizen. -- ___________________________________________ ____ _______________ Regards, | |\ ____ | | | | |\ Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again! Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | | ___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________ |
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#12
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"Michael G. Koerner" wrote in message Every 'native' American is a USA citizen (read the Constitution). I was born in Milwaukee, WI and by that fact, am a USA citizen. Well now that is the case, but back in 1898 when my grandfather was born in the Indian Territory it was not. He was not a citizen of the USA by virtue of having the then apparent misfortune of his Native American blood. He became a citizen in 1907 when the Indian Territory became the state of Oklahoma, members of the so called "Five Civilised Tribes"(In quotes because this is what they called them, like they were the only civilised ones, and the rest were nasty savages) were granted citizenship. Others, the "savages" as they were contemporarily and derisevely known as, were not granted citizenship until 1926. Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 1/19/04 |
#13
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"Michael G. Koerner" wrote in message ... Every 'native' American is a USA citizen (read the Constitution). I was born in Milwaukee, WI and by that fact, am a USA citizen. -- Yep, it is in the Constitution as you cite, I completely agree with you. However 18-19th century 'Mericans did not. Otherwise Native Americans would not have forcibly been removed from their lands in the east and sent packing to Indian Territory(now Oklahoma) Oh and all men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Hmmm, slavery was not outlawed until the 13th amendment replaced it in 1865 with "Sharecropping". I don't think they thought they were free either. Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 1/19/04 |
#14
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"Scottishmoney" wrote in message ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DG644BTUO1.DTL Good arguments for removing Jack&$$ from the $20 bill, but I would prefer to see a noble Native American such as Sitting Bull. They can keep Jackson, just get rid of the colors and make it green again. |
#15
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:10:58 -0500, "Bruce Remick"
wrote: Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native Americans? Sigh...... How is it backward? They're foreigners! )) Padraic. la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu. |
#16
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:58:09 -0500, Padraic Brown
wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:10:58 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote: Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native Americans? Sigh...... How is it backward? They're foreigners! )) I sense this is not a new discussion, and will bite my tongue! Can we get this on to Australia in anyway? |
#17
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"Scottishmoney" wrote in message ... "Bruce Remick" wrote in message news:y_tPb.22492$Mb7.4964@lakeread04... Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native Americans? Sigh...... Bruce My Grandfather was one of the ones whom became a citizen of the USA in 1907. Kind of ridiculous when you think about it, because as far back as the stories go, his ancestors lived in what is now the USA. They were forced from their homes in Northern Georgia at gunpoint during the reign of Andrew Jack&$$ and marched to the so called Indian Territory which was said to be theirs for eternity. But in 1889 the so called Indian Territory was opened to settlement by the USA Govt. The feeling I get when I travel in the Nations, is that many like the new autonomy, hopefully soon more and more of the Nations will take on the lead of some such as the Seven Nations of New York which issue passports to their citizens. I do not believe in gaming, but I cannot help but smirk at the irony that it has created, Native Americans getting a steady income from the employment it has created, new homes, nice cars and most of all cutting the ties of dependence on the Bureau of Indian Affairs. I also like seeing busloads of palefaces clamouring to spend their monies in the casinos and the stores, even gas stations which are all cheaper because of the tax exemption. Hopefully soon, a creation of coins, and paper money will follow accordingly in this new autonomous environment. The Shawnee Nation of Oklahoma created Silver Dollars during 2003 and is said to be following up this year as they were so popular. I share your approval of the irony. But I just wish there were no need for irony. One of the few things I've been embarrassed at my country about in my 60+ years. Bruce |
#18
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"Padraic Brown" wrote in message ... On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:10:58 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote: Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native Americans? Sigh...... How is it backward? They're foreigners! )) Padraic. I enjoy arguing views with you in some threads, Padriac, but I think I'll pass on this one..... Bruce |
#19
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:47:48 -0500, Scottishmoney
wrote: "Aladdin Sane" wrote in message news:WflPb.93273$sv6.356046@attbi_s52... Interesting, but was Sitting Bull ever a US citizen? Even today, Indian lands are Soverign entities. -- Quite interesting, but all Native Americans were made citizens of the US with some act in 1926. But some tribes, notably the Five Tribes of Oklahoma became citizens in 1907 when their forcibly annexed and overrun territory was incorporated into the United States as the state of Oklahoma that year. Nowadays many of the Nations are sovereign as you mention, and handle much of their government, which the gamblers pay for in the casinos. In fact I notice that many of them have their own licence plates on their cars etc. I do some contract work for a school on a tribal land in Northern Michigan, it is nice to see they are so self sufficient now, mainly because of the greedy gamblers. Dave But the white man has seen the riches of the new casinos and is working diligently to build his own casinos in better locations. At least up here. |
#20
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"Scottishmoney" wrote in message ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DG644BTUO1.DTL Good arguments for removing Jack&$$ from the $20 bill, but I would prefer to see a noble Native American such as Sitting Bull. Dave -- I agree it's time for a change on the $20 bill, which is now the workhorse denomination of U.S. commerce and the only thing most ATMs spit out these days. If the portrait on the $20 was decided on moral grounds and ideals espoused by the subject, free of racism, MLK would have replaced Jackson years ago. By the same reasoning, Grant wouldn't be on the $50 anymore. Does the longevity of their portraits speak for the political influence of racists and drunkards, or does it just prove Americans' apathy or fondness for the status quo? I assume we are still stuck in the rut of honoring dead presidents or those who should have been/could have been presidents. Obviously the denomination has no relation to how we cherish the pictured historical person, or Abe Lincoln and George Washington would be on bigger bills than Grover Cleveland, Salmon Chase, or even Woodrow Wilson. I'd like to see a return to native Americans and Miss Liberty depicted on our currency, but doubt such a change will take place before 2026 or so. Native Americans and Miss Liberty were allegorical figures who remained uncontroversial for many years. Education hasn't been celebrated on US currency for over 100 years, and would have lasted longer had an allegorical depiction not been so controversial. I suspect that the eventual change will not be based on who was the greatest orator or who spent his life for standards of morality or justice. What would it take to change the portraits? A national disaster? Money buying lobbyists in congress? The Jefferson lobby from Virginia has quelled efforts to put Martin Luther King on the nickel, so I suspect that portraits on coins and currency are subject to disapproval by even limited special interests. In the lack of national attention (such as the assasination of JFK prematurely ending the Franklin half dollar), how can a group persuade congress to actually make a change in who is depicted on a denomination? Can the major distillers and tobacco companies hire lobbyists effective enough to replace Andrew Jackson with Humphrey Bogart on the $20? If Osama bin Laden attacks simultaneously attacjs major cities in California Arnold Schwarznegger on the series 2006 %20 note? Barring such a catastrophe, might the most powerful financiers put J.P. Morgan on a bill, or bring Salmon Chase back into circulation? If the popular vote were relevant in such decisions, we would have a different pop star eplacing a dead president or secretary of the treasury's portrait every year. (Marilyn Monroe as Miss Liberty or Elvis anyone? If living entertainers could be depicted on circulating coins, People Magazine and Enterainment Tonight would be sure to cover congressional debates. An interesting thread, which makes me wonder "how could" instead of "why should". |
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