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#1
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Border dispute
I've tried various atlases, web sites, and a non-philatelic newsgroup
to get an answer to this, without success. So I'll turn to you, which I should have done in the first place. Although the question is not philatelic, it is collateral to an exhibit I am working on for Vanpex; it includes several crash covers from the Uiver. -------------------- On December 19, 1934, a K.L.M. DC-2 airliner named Uiver (Stork) crashed near Rutbah Wells, Syria, according to some sources, or Rutbah Wells, Iraq, according to other sources. Some sources say that it crashed in the "Syrian Desert," while others say it was the "Iraq Desert". All of the maps that I can locate -- all relatively modern ones -- place Rutbah Wells, a.k.a. Al Rutbah, in Iraq. Unless the border has changed since the creation of Iraq after the First World War it seems that the references to "Rutbah Wells, Syria," are incorrect, and that "Syrian Desert" and "Iraq Desert" are descriptive rather than geographical entities. Any Middle East history buffs here who can shed some light on this? Bob |
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#2
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Border dispute
"Bobstamp" schrieb snip Hi Bob, may be it could be useful to go to a bigger library and look for an old map there of the early thirties. Even good schoolbooks show often the correct political borders, especially in older school atlases. May be You can find more information the http://www.geographie.uni-osnabrueck...ks/extern.html (in German) http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/english/index.htm (from United Nations) http://www.maps.ethz.ch/map_catalogue-country_maps.html (online international worldwide Country maps) best regards Gerhard |
#3
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Border dispute
Hi Bob:
Ar Rutbah (formerly Rutbah Wells) is in Iraq, about 175 Km from the border with Jordan and the same distance from the border with Syria. Current population is about 25,000. An aerial view can be seen at: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...84l-005-cg.jpg Note: The border is somewhat porous, so smuggling has been prevalent in the past. If you look at the map at: http://cjoint.com/data/cdnM7BrzWV.htm , you can see Syria (top left) and Jordan (bottom left). Since the geography of the area was poorly known by most westerners in the 1930s (probably today as well) , it would be easy for news reports to place it in "the Syrian desert" or "the Iraqi desert" which had no fixed boundaries. Also, the somewhat featureless nature of the desert in that region (bald and barren) would not help anyone who had crashed there to orient themselves. Today we would use longtitude and latitude or GPS. Al Rutbah (in Al-Anbar Governorate) is the gateway of the flow of people and material from Jordan to Baghdad. It was (is?) a major smuggling centre. It was a major fuel and water stop on the Imperial Airways airmail route: Alexandria - Cairo - Gaza - Amman - Rutbah Wells - Baghdad. Rutbah Wells Poster (Note the Furrow and the fort) http://www.flyandrive.com/images/emp...l_rutbah2b.jpg (Note: pre Imperial Airways 1919-1926, the RAF flew this route) Flying the Furrow http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issu...the.furrow.htm The legionnaires' fort at Rutbah , Irak (sic) (1930) http://www.museenkoeln.de/ausstellun...oto350/470.jpg On the philatelic side, in Harmers sale #4692, two crash covers from the KLM flight were sold for 70 GB Pounds. In Harmers sale #4692, six crash covers and a card from the KLM flight were sold for 100 GB Pounds. A crash cover from the Uiver http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg The Crash of the Uiver -------------------------------- Flight Date: December 12th 1934 Aircraft Type: Douglas DC-2-115A Registration: PH-AJU Operator: KLM Whe In the desert 16 km south of Rutbah Wells Photo of the Uiver before takeoff on the fateful flight: http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg PH-AJU Douglas DC-2-115A KLM, named "Uiver". 19 (or 20).12.34 near Rutbah Wells (Syria) (sic) on a non-scheduled flight from Amsterdam (Netherlands) to Batavia (Netherlands East-Indies, now Jakarta, Indonesia). The aircraft departed short after midnight from Schiphol on a special so-called 'christmas' flight to Batavia with post and 3 passengers. On the Cairo (Egypt) - Bagdad (Iraq) route it was missed. On 21.12, the Douglas was found, completely destroyed and burned, by a RAF-pilot, in the desert 16 km (10 miles) south of Rutbah Wells. (lightning strike suspected) All 4 cockpit-crew and 3 passengers were killed. From the investigation was found that the aircraft hit the ground with normal cruise speed, it was trimmed for horizontal flight. The weather during the impact was very bad. During the investigation, the bad flying characteristics of the DC-2 during heavy rain were suspected. Some test- flights were performed with changed vertical tail- plane and rudder. This aircraft was one of the 20 participants in the MacPherson Robertson London-Melbourne race during 10.34. The "Uiver" made its famous forced landing on a racing track in Albury (Australia), but managed to win the handicap race. 8*) The flight of 12.34 was the first commercial flight for KLM the aircraft made, after arrival in mid 34 as the first DC-2 in the Netherlands and after the participation in the London- Melbourne race. The Uiver was very popular during that time in the Netherlands and its crash shocked the whole country. Part of the mail was salvaged from the crash and flown from Baghdad to Batavia by the KLM Fokker PH-AIR "RIJSTVOGEL". The mail finally arrived in Batavia on Dec 28, 1934. Blair |
#4
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Border dispute
I did a Google for" Syrian Desert". It is a geographical entity
covering Southern Syria and parts of Iraq and Jordan - in this case a journalist or other lay person may think that Syrian Desert is synonimous with Syria where it is not necessarily the case. The actual place name will give the correct location. Malcolm Blair (TC) wrote: Hi Bob: Ar Rutbah (formerly Rutbah Wells) is in Iraq, about 175 Km from the border with Jordan and the same distance from the border with Syria. Current population is about 25,000. An aerial view can be seen at: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...84l-005-cg.jpg Note: The border is somewhat porous, so smuggling has been prevalent in the past. If you look at the map at: http://cjoint.com/data/cdnM7BrzWV.htm , you can see Syria (top left) and Jordan (bottom left). Since the geography of the area was poorly known by most westerners in the 1930s (probably today as well) , it would be easy for news reports to place it in "the Syrian desert" or "the Iraqi desert" which had no fixed boundaries. Also, the somewhat featureless nature of the desert in that region (bald and barren) would not help anyone who had crashed there to orient themselves. Today we would use longtitude and latitude or GPS. Al Rutbah (in Al-Anbar Governorate) is the gateway of the flow of people and material from Jordan to Baghdad. It was (is?) a major smuggling centre. It was a major fuel and water stop on the Imperial Airways airmail route: Alexandria - Cairo - Gaza - Amman - Rutbah Wells - Baghdad. Rutbah Wells Poster (Note the Furrow and the fort) http://www.flyandrive.com/images/emp...l_rutbah2b.jpg (Note: pre Imperial Airways 1919-1926, the RAF flew this route) Flying the Furrow http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issu...the.furrow.htm The legionnaires' fort at Rutbah , Irak (sic) (1930) http://www.museenkoeln.de/ausstellun...oto350/470.jpg On the philatelic side, in Harmers sale #4692, two crash covers from the KLM flight were sold for 70 GB Pounds. In Harmers sale #4692, six crash covers and a card from the KLM flight were sold for 100 GB Pounds. A crash cover from the Uiver http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg The Crash of the Uiver -------------------------------- Flight Date: December 12th 1934 Aircraft Type: Douglas DC-2-115A Registration: PH-AJU Operator: KLM Whe In the desert 16 km south of Rutbah Wells Photo of the Uiver before takeoff on the fateful flight: http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg PH-AJU Douglas DC-2-115A KLM, named "Uiver". 19 (or 20).12.34 near Rutbah Wells (Syria) (sic) on a non-scheduled flight from Amsterdam (Netherlands) to Batavia (Netherlands East-Indies, now Jakarta, Indonesia). The aircraft departed short after midnight from Schiphol on a special so-called 'christmas' flight to Batavia with post and 3 passengers. On the Cairo (Egypt) - Bagdad (Iraq) route it was missed. On 21.12, the Douglas was found, completely destroyed and burned, by a RAF-pilot, in the desert 16 km (10 miles) south of Rutbah Wells. (lightning strike suspected) All 4 cockpit-crew and 3 passengers were killed. From the investigation was found that the aircraft hit the ground with normal cruise speed, it was trimmed for horizontal flight. The weather during the impact was very bad. During the investigation, the bad flying characteristics of the DC-2 during heavy rain were suspected. Some test- flights were performed with changed vertical tail- plane and rudder. This aircraft was one of the 20 participants in the MacPherson Robertson London-Melbourne race during 10.34. The "Uiver" made its famous forced landing on a racing track in Albury (Australia), but managed to win the handicap race. 8*) The flight of 12.34 was the first commercial flight for KLM the aircraft made, after arrival in mid 34 as the first DC-2 in the Netherlands and after the participation in the London- Melbourne race. The Uiver was very popular during that time in the Netherlands and its crash shocked the whole country. Part of the mail was salvaged from the crash and flown from Baghdad to Batavia by the KLM Fokker PH-AIR "RIJSTVOGEL". The mail finally arrived in Batavia on Dec 28, 1934. Blair |
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