Border dispute

I've tried various atlases, web sites, and a non-philatelic newsgroup
to get an answer to this, without success. So I'll turn to you, which I
should have done in the first place. Although the question is not
philatelic, it is collateral to an exhibit I am working on for Vanpex;
it includes several crash covers from the Uiver.

--------------------

On December 19, 1934, a K.L.M. DC-2 airliner named Uiver (Stork)
crashed near Rutbah Wells, Syria, according to some sources, or Rutbah
Wells, Iraq, according to other sources. Some sources say that it
crashed in the "Syrian Desert," while others say it was the "Iraq
Desert". All of the maps that I can locate -- all relatively modern
ones -- place Rutbah Wells, a.k.a. Al Rutbah, in Iraq. Unless the
border has changed since the creation of Iraq after the First World War
it seems that the references to "Rutbah Wells, Syria," are incorrect,
and that "Syrian Desert" and "Iraq Desert" are descriptive rather than
geographical entities. Any Middle East history buffs here who can shed
some light on this?

Bob

"Bobstamp" schrieb snip

Hi Bob,

may be it could be useful to go to a bigger library and look for an old map
there of the early thirties. Even good schoolbooks show often the correct
political borders, especially in older school atlases.

May be You can find more information the

http://www.geographie.uni-osnabrueck...ks/extern.html (in German)

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/english/index.htm (from United
Nations)

http://www.maps.ethz.ch/map_catalogue-country_maps.html (online
international worldwide Country maps)

best regards

Gerhard

Hi Bob:

Ar Rutbah (formerly Rutbah Wells) is in Iraq, about
175 Km from the border with Jordan and the same
distance from the border with Syria. Current population
is about 25,000. An aerial view can be seen at:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...84l-005-cg.jpg

Note: The border is somewhat porous, so smuggling
has been prevalent in the past.

If you look at the map at: http://cjoint.com/data/cdnM7BrzWV.htm ,
you can see Syria (top left) and Jordan (bottom left).

Since the geography of the area was poorly known
by most westerners in the 1930s (probably today as well) ,
it would be easy for news reports to place it in
"the Syrian desert" or "the Iraqi desert" which
had no fixed boundaries.

Also, the somewhat featureless nature of the desert
in that region (bald and barren) would not help anyone
who had crashed there to orient themselves.

Today we would use longtitude and latitude or GPS.

Al Rutbah (in Al-Anbar Governorate) is the gateway
of the flow of people and material from Jordan
to Baghdad. It was (is?) a major smuggling centre.

It was a major fuel and water stop on the Imperial
Airways airmail route: Alexandria - Cairo - Gaza -
Amman - Rutbah Wells - Baghdad.

Rutbah Wells Poster (Note the Furrow and the fort)
http://www.flyandrive.com/images/emp...l_rutbah2b.jpg
(Note: pre Imperial Airways 1919-1926, the RAF flew this route)

Flying the Furrow
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issu...the.furrow.htm

The legionnaires' fort at Rutbah , Irak (sic) (1930)
http://www.museenkoeln.de/ausstellun...oto350/470.jpg

On the philatelic side, in Harmers sale #4692,
two crash covers from the KLM flight were sold
for 70 GB Pounds. In Harmers sale #4692, six
crash covers and a card from the KLM flight were
sold for 100 GB Pounds.

A crash cover from the Uiver
http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg

The Crash of the Uiver
--------------------------------
Flight Date: December 12th 1934
Aircraft Type: Douglas DC-2-115A
Registration: PH-AJU
Operator: KLM
Whe In the desert 16 km south of Rutbah Wells

Photo of the Uiver before takeoff on the fateful flight:
http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg

PH-AJU Douglas DC-2-115A KLM, named "Uiver".
19 (or 20).12.34 near Rutbah Wells (Syria) (sic)
on a non-scheduled flight from Amsterdam (Netherlands)
to Batavia (Netherlands East-Indies, now Jakarta, Indonesia).

The aircraft departed short after midnight from
Schiphol on a special so-called 'christmas' flight
to Batavia with post and 3 passengers.

On the Cairo (Egypt) - Bagdad (Iraq) route
it was missed. On 21.12, the Douglas was found,
completely destroyed and burned, by a RAF-pilot,
in the desert 16 km (10 miles) south of Rutbah Wells.
(lightning strike suspected)

All 4 cockpit-crew and 3 passengers were killed.
From the investigation was found that the aircraft
hit the ground with normal cruise speed, it was
trimmed for horizontal flight. The weather during
the impact was very bad.

During the investigation, the bad flying characteristics
of the DC-2 during heavy rain were suspected.
Some test- flights were performed with changed
vertical tail- plane and rudder.

This aircraft was one of the 20 participants in
the MacPherson Robertson London-Melbourne
race during 10.34. The "Uiver" made its famous
forced landing on a racing track in Albury (Australia),
but managed to win the handicap race. 8*)

The flight of 12.34 was the first commercial flight
for KLM the aircraft made, after arrival in mid 34
as the first DC-2 in the Netherlands and after the
participation in the London- Melbourne race.

The Uiver was very popular during that time in the
Netherlands and its crash shocked the whole country.

Part of the mail was salvaged from the crash and
flown from Baghdad to Batavia by the KLM Fokker
PH-AIR "RIJSTVOGEL". The mail finally arrived in
Batavia on Dec 28, 1934.

Blair

I did a Google for" Syrian Desert". It is a geographical entity
covering Southern Syria and parts of Iraq and Jordan - in this case a
journalist or other lay person may think that Syrian Desert is
synonimous with Syria where it is not necessarily the case. The actual
place name will give the correct location.
Malcolm

Blair (TC) wrote:
Hi Bob:

Ar Rutbah (formerly Rutbah Wells) is in Iraq, about
175 Km from the border with Jordan and the same
distance from the border with Syria. Current population
is about 25,000. An aerial view can be seen at:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...84l-005-cg.jpg

Note: The border is somewhat porous, so smuggling
has been prevalent in the past.

If you look at the map at: http://cjoint.com/data/cdnM7BrzWV.htm ,
you can see Syria (top left) and Jordan (bottom left).

Since the geography of the area was poorly known
by most westerners in the 1930s (probably today as well) ,
it would be easy for news reports to place it in
"the Syrian desert" or "the Iraqi desert" which
had no fixed boundaries.

Also, the somewhat featureless nature of the desert
in that region (bald and barren) would not help anyone
who had crashed there to orient themselves.

Today we would use longtitude and latitude or GPS.

Al Rutbah (in Al-Anbar Governorate) is the gateway
of the flow of people and material from Jordan
to Baghdad. It was (is?) a major smuggling centre.

It was a major fuel and water stop on the Imperial
Airways airmail route: Alexandria - Cairo - Gaza -
Amman - Rutbah Wells - Baghdad.

Rutbah Wells Poster (Note the Furrow and the fort)
http://www.flyandrive.com/images/emp...l_rutbah2b.jpg
(Note: pre Imperial Airways 1919-1926, the RAF flew this route)

Flying the Furrow
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issu...the.furrow.htm

The legionnaires' fort at Rutbah , Irak (sic) (1930)
http://www.museenkoeln.de/ausstellun...oto350/470.jpg

On the philatelic side, in Harmers sale #4692,
two crash covers from the KLM flight were sold
for 70 GB Pounds. In Harmers sale #4692, six
crash covers and a card from the KLM flight were
sold for 100 GB Pounds.

A crash cover from the Uiver
http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg

The Crash of the Uiver
--------------------------------
Flight Date: December 12th 1934
Aircraft Type: Douglas DC-2-115A
Registration: PH-AJU
Operator: KLM
Whe In the desert 16 km south of Rutbah Wells

Photo of the Uiver before takeoff on the fateful flight:
http://www.stampwhiz.com/121834nethe...ivercrashc.jpg

PH-AJU Douglas DC-2-115A KLM, named "Uiver".
19 (or 20).12.34 near Rutbah Wells (Syria) (sic)
on a non-scheduled flight from Amsterdam (Netherlands)
to Batavia (Netherlands East-Indies, now Jakarta, Indonesia).

The aircraft departed short after midnight from
Schiphol on a special so-called 'christmas' flight
to Batavia with post and 3 passengers.

On the Cairo (Egypt) - Bagdad (Iraq) route
it was missed. On 21.12, the Douglas was found,
completely destroyed and burned, by a RAF-pilot,
in the desert 16 km (10 miles) south of Rutbah Wells.
(lightning strike suspected)

All 4 cockpit-crew and 3 passengers were killed.
From the investigation was found that the aircraft
hit the ground with normal cruise speed, it was
trimmed for horizontal flight. The weather during
the impact was very bad.

During the investigation, the bad flying characteristics
of the DC-2 during heavy rain were suspected.
Some test- flights were performed with changed
vertical tail- plane and rudder.

This aircraft was one of the 20 participants in
the MacPherson Robertson London-Melbourne
race during 10.34. The "Uiver" made its famous
forced landing on a racing track in Albury (Australia),
but managed to win the handicap race. 8*)

The flight of 12.34 was the first commercial flight
for KLM the aircraft made, after arrival in mid 34
as the first DC-2 in the Netherlands and after the
participation in the London- Melbourne race.

The Uiver was very popular during that time in the
Netherlands and its crash shocked the whole country.

Part of the mail was salvaged from the crash and
flown from Baghdad to Batavia by the KLM Fokker
PH-AIR "RIJSTVOGEL". The mail finally arrived in
Batavia on Dec 28, 1934.

Blair