Frank the Spammer has been NARUed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"RipCurl" wrote in message
...


Remember, spam is defined by the person who has received it. YOU are in no
way authorized to define what I consider spam. If i receive a message from
you. And until there is a law in the book that says spam is "xxx" and only
"xxx", you are subjected to the end receivers interpretation of that
message. IF they did NOT specifically ASK for your email and its
commercial
in nature, its spam, plain and simple

As email takes place on private networks, laws are irrelevant. Spam is what
the recipient or their ISP's AUP/TOS says it is. Don't like their rules,
build your own network.


--
McWebber
No email replies read
If someone tells you to forward an email to all your friends
please forget that I'm your friend.

"Derek (SC)" wrote in message
news:MYynb.51643$e01.128478@attbi_s02...
Bottom line: Frank spammed: he sent unsolicited, commercial emails
to former ebay buyers, in clear and direct violation of ebay's TOS,
which
define such
contact as spam.

Which brings up something interesting: Shouldn't there be way for EBay
sellers to
let former customers know about their EBay auctions?

There is. Tag your emails asking them to sign up to be notified. If they
sign up, then email them.

--
McWebber
No email replies read
If someone tells you to forward an email to all your friends
please forget that I'm your friend.

"a. linklurker" wrote in message
news:P2znb.50311$Fm2.25661@attbi_s04...

Americans are the people. English is the language.

There is standard English and there is English. The English spoken in
Britain is quite different from the English spoken in the United States and,
in some cases and words, may as well be another language entirely.

e.g. A boot is not what you wear on your feet.
--
McWebber
No email replies read
If someone tells you to forward an email to all your friends
please forget that I'm your friend.

"RipCurl" wrote in message
...


Actually he probably violated about 49 state laws that DO have spam laws
on
the books.

I think it's more like 26.

California just passed the most harshest of laws conscerning
spam, and eBay is based in California.

Which takes effect in January.


--
McWebber
No email replies read
If someone tells you to forward an email to all your friends
please forget that I'm your friend.

Derek (SC) wrote:

But how can you let the buyers know about your list -
without relying on people not being lazy and
checking out your website...

I'm not entirely sure that there needs to be a list.
But maybe that's because of the nature of my widgets.
I don't sell collectibles. I sell fixed price items
that are always available. When they get purchased,
I post the exact same item for sale again.

So about coins, for example, I'm ignorant. Do coin
buyers hunt for specific coins? ie do they search
for that 47d penny to round out their set? Or do
they browse and suddenly the ads (mail list?) tells
them "Hey there's a 61p nickel available"? Don't
the buyers know what they're looking for or do
they rely on the vendors to tell them what's
hot, what's rare?

Lumpy - Hey I'll Be Right Over
--
Lumpy in Your Living Room!
www.digitalcartography.com/house_concert.htm

I still get advertisements in the mail from dealerships where I have test
driven a car or gone in to look around. No difference in an email
advertising something that may be of interest to a customer than a
dealership sending out a special offer to test drive the newest and greatest
automobile.

So much energy is being exerted on this miniscule topic. I see nothing wrong
with someone sending out an email advising a former customer of some
upcoming items that may be of interest. This may constitute one email a week
at best? The problem of spam lies in the companies that buy and sell address
lists, then sending 5 emails an hour to each of those addresses for
everything to super soap to a hundred million dollars of life insurance for
a penny. An infrequent email that can be easily identified by the sender's
addy is not my definition of spam, and especially with an "opt out" option
that is honored.
For those of you that are overly concerned with receiving a message taking
up 1k of space in your inbox: try finding something just a little more
important to lose your sleep over, it's not a big deal.


"Deborah Stevenson" wrote in message
...
In wsznb.50768$Tr4.106963@attbi_s03 "Derek \(SC\)"
writes:

There *is* a way--they can add consenting buyers to their lists.
Buyers
that haven't given their consent shouldn't receive such announcements.

But how can you let the buyers know about your list - without relying
on people not being lazy and checking out your website (not a good
possibility from my experience) and thereby defeating the point
of having a list, or letting them know through e-mail -
thereby perhaps constituting "spam" just letting
them know about it in the first place. It's an interesting conundrum.

I'm really not seeing how it's a conundrum. When you have a transaction,
you ask the buyer if s/he's interested in being added to your mailing
list. You can also ask the buyer if s/he'd be interested in being added
to your *planned* mailing list, if you don't have one yet.

If you don't have a mailing list and will never have one, don't ask the
buyer :-).

If you had transactions before you developed your mailing list and didn't
think to ask about the future possibilities, them's the breaks--you don't
get to send them stuff now because you forgot to ask then, any more than
the place you bought your car from twenty years ago gets to spam you now
because they didn't have email then. If they're repeat customers, they'll
repeat, and you can ask them when you're in another transaction with them.


--
Deborah Stevenson

[eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]

To me Frank looks like a professional victim. Billy


Bruce Hickmott wrote:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:02:07 GMT, "a. linklurker"
is alleged to have written:


"Bruce Hickmott" wrote
Bob Niland wrote
"Bob Niland" wrote
a. linklurker wrote:
His interpretation of what he's doing, vis'a'vis UCE, is
that it isn't spam: if that's why he was NARUed,
of course, in his own mind, he wasn't NARUed for spamming!!!!


You could be dead on with that interpretation
of the hearsay evidence so far presented.
Frank & co. may well be speaking a language
that only superficially resembles English.

Well, it's American as opposed to English. But I thought I was pretty clear.

"American"????!

Americans are the people. English is the language.


Sorry, attempt at humor. There are those who do not care for what America has
done to Her Majesty's English and thus refer to what we speak over here as
"American".


If Frank wan't NARU'd for spam, it's just a
matter of time before he will be - unless he
takes a hard look at the customer PERCEPTION
of what he's doing, and follows the advice
here on how to avoid spam complaints.

Frank, that's probably good advice. Even the APPEARANCE of spamming can get a
account killed some places.
Opt-in with confirm is really the only safe way.
Bruce

"Probably"???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!?! ?!?!?!?!?!??????????????
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh. What is it going to take? A papal decreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

"Opt-in with confirm is really the only safe way."
Helloooooooooooo!
Good morning: someone is waking up!


I ignored most of this thread, but I assumed that this had already been pointed
out to him. Most likely in a hostile manner, but I don't know that. I wanted to
repeat it, to make sure that Frank saw it from somebody who wasn't a
Frank-hater. Tough to take advice from people who wish you ill.

Do you realize that Frank trolled this group, was told that very same thing
countless times, and continued to pound his head against the wall for our
amusement and annoyment? No one asked Frank to create his little scene:
he produced and directed his own starring role.

link


Frank DOES have a large number of self inflicted wounds.

Bruce

In "Mike" writes:

I still get advertisements in the mail from dealerships where I have test
driven a car or gone in to look around. No difference in an email
advertising something that may be of interest to a customer than a
dealership sending out a special offer to test drive the newest and greatest
automobile.

You may feel that way, but many laws, many agreements, and many
users--both senders and recipients--don't. And if there's really no
difference, Frank can solve his problem by merely mailing his
announcements.

So much energy is being exerted on this miniscule topic. I see nothing wrong
with someone sending out an email advising a former customer of some
upcoming items that may be of interest.

As long as you're the customer, that's your prerogative to say.

This may constitute one email a week
at best?

From all the 3000 businesses I've ever dealt with, on an account that
needs to stay accessible for business.

That's without even getting into the problem that some of those @#A$%
businesses use OE and have no reasonable sense of security, so that I'll
end up being a worm victim because they've felt entitled to my address and
never moved beyond "click here" when it came to handling technology.

The fact is, eBay doesn't agree, many ISPs don't agree, and many states
don't agree with you. I'm happy about that. And, as Bob kept trying to
point to Frank, who never seemed to get it, there's not much point about
your trying to argue this here, since the people who have the power to
change the rules to agree with you aren't here.

For those of you that are overly concerned with receiving a message taking
up 1k of space in your inbox: try finding something just a little more
important to lose your sleep over, it's not a big deal.

Again, when it's in your mailbox, that's fine for you to say. You don't
actually get to determine what's a problem for others.



--
Deborah Stevenson

[eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]

For those of you that are overly concerned with receiving a message taking
up 1k of space in your inbox: try finding something just a little more
important to lose your sleep over, it's not a big deal.

Then why do you mung your email addy?

In article , Reid Goldsborough
writes:


Hey you spammed, you were complained about to eBay.
How can "we" complain to eBay without evidence?
seems eBay had enough "evidence" to prove that you are indeed a spammer, a
rule breaker, and don't give a **** about their guidelines.

Along with cursing and not using your real name here, you've just made
the statement that he was NARUed for spam. There's zero evidence for
this. Perhaps Frank was NARUed for this, perhaps not, perhaps for good
reason, perhaps not. I don't know, and I've seen no evidence that
anyone else does either. I'm not defending or attacking Frank. He's
knowledgeable about coins and has his share of satisfied repeat
customers, but I don't know him and have never bought anything from
him (he doesn't sell the types of coins I collect).

I'm jumping in here because I take issue with people who level these
attacks based on nothing. You would never talk this way to somebody in
person unless you were deliberately trying to get punched in the nose.
You do so here because you can, because you can use a fake name and
level these charges, no matter if they're true or false, without
repercussion. You're not alone. Some people with more courage but just
as little decency use their real names to make up lies about other
people. It's all Usenet junk, why Usenet is such a turnoff for many
people, why many people who've initially lurked go away without
becoming active posters.

--

Out side of the fact that nothing he said can be called "cursing", I agree.
The only thing sillier than Frank continually reviving and relentlessly
"tweaking the noses" of the vigilantes is the pavlovian way they march in lock
step to scream at him.

Makes for funny stuff sometimes...

dondi3
DONDI enterprises. BUY, SELL, TRADE. RARE COINS & PRECIOUS METALS
Member COINNET, CSNS, ANA, INA, MOON, ILNA.