Frank the Spammer has been NARUed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bruce Remick wrote in message ...
Frank Provasek wrote:

LOL
Arrogant ebay *indeed*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...rid=frankcoins

link


I have been the victim of newsgroup smear campaigns for several
years. Just another tactic by the Frank-haters.


I have casually followed the rcc threads in which you complain about
Ebay's spam policy. If I recall, YOU initiated each of these threads
and then participated in the ensuing give and take. If there was any
"newsgroup smear campaign", it certainly wasn't evident in rcc-- at
least to the rest of us. Sorry you feel that everyone is out to get
you.

Bruce



Frank will be back on Ebay I'm sure. I think the suspension for first time
NARU is 30 days. Whatever he did to get the NARU I hope it doesn't happen
again.

"John Stone" wrote in message


Frank will be back on Ebay I'm sure. I think the suspension for first
time
NARU is 30 days. Whatever he did to get the NARU I hope it doesn't happen
again.

Considerably less than 30 days.
I won an item on Oct 13, received it about a week later and couldn't leave
fb 'cause the seller was naru'ed.
That was lifted two days ago, and I have since left fb.

Ergo: not much over a week (in *that* case).

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:54:09 -0500, Bruce Hickmott
wrote:

I'll produce another, I sent one of those supportive emails. I think Frank has
made some enemies and is a victim of their retaliation.

FWIW, Frank was not NARU'd for spamming. And I doubt the NARU will stick, though
Frank wouldn't be the first person kicked off of Ebay for false reasons.

The really funny part of all of this is that no one here really knows
if Frank sent out e-mails to former eBay buyers or not. None of those
frothing at the mouth with righteous indignation have reported
actually receiving an e-mail from Frank. He seems to be here for the
thrust and parry more than anything else. It's quite possible that he
claims to have sent e-mails just to tweak the noses of the Hall
Monitors. More power to him if he did.

If he did send out e-mails, then the whole issue is a big yawn.

..com wrote in message ...
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:54:09 -0500, Bruce Hickmott
wrote:

I'll produce another, I sent one of those supportive emails. I think Frank has
made some enemies and is a victim of their retaliation.

FWIW, Frank was not NARU'd for spamming. And I doubt the NARU will stick, though
Frank wouldn't be the first person kicked off of Ebay for false reasons.

The really funny part of all of this is that no one here really knows
if Frank sent out e-mails to former eBay buyers or not. None of those
frothing at the mouth with righteous indignation have reported
actually receiving an e-mail from Frank. He seems to be here for the
thrust and parry more than anything else. It's quite possible that he
claims to have sent e-mails just to tweak the noses of the Hall
Monitors. More power to him if he did.

If he did send out e-mails, then the whole issue is a big yawn.



I bought from Frank and might do so again. He did send emails to
me about his auction until I asked him to stop.

Dale

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:52:24 GMT, "RipCurl"
wrote:

if someone received an email from you that was "commercial" in nature,
featured your ebay auctions, and hte person specifically did not state they
wanted to hear from you, its spam.

Do you have a confirmation in WRITING from every buyer/bidder/non-winner of
your auctions that they want to hear from you about your future auctions?

You must be able to prove that. IF not, then you are a spammer. And you
spam.

This is not necessarily true. Your definition of spam above is THE
most narrow definition of it, which not everybody uses, and I'm not
talking about spammers here. There are LOTS of definitions of spam,
and this is the key reason that legislation controlling it is taking
so long.

My definition of spam is unsolicited untargeted bulk email. The email
has to be not only unsolicited, but also sent out willynilly and en
mass. If you target your emails to a small number of users, according
to this definition, it's not spam. Whether or not it's commercial in
nature is irrelevant. An unsolicited untargeted bulk emailing wishing
everybody peace and happiness is spam, again according to this
definition.

I personally see nothing wrong with sending an email to someone who
bought from you previously that mentioned you were putting up another
auction for a similar coin PROVIDED you make it clear that if they
don't want to receive similar emails from you in the future, you won't
send them, and provided you follow through with this.

Spam is a huge problem, wasting millions of dollars in lost
productivity and infrastructure costs and benefiting only the
sleazeballs who don't mind ****ing off a million people to get one
sale. But the bottom line for me, and many others, is that not all
unsolicited email is spam.

--

Email me at (delete "remove this")

Coin Collecting: Consumer Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

Dale Hallmark wrote:

I bought from Frank and might do so again.

Off eBay? On eBay? Both? Which first?

He did send emails to me about his auction
until I asked him to stop.

Had you ever opted in?
How did you get on the list?

If being on the list is not opt-in, and he
doesn't keep a log of the opt, he's asking
for generic spammer problems, entirely
apart from any eBay involvement.

Bringing eBay into the picture greatly
complicates matters, and amplifies the
risks. If Frank hasn't been NARU'd for
spamming, his general attitude suggests
that its just a matter of time.

Tony Cooper writes:

It's quite possible that he claims to have
sent e-mails just to tweak the noses of
the Hall Monitors.

This is suicidal behaviour on the internet.
At the very least, it's asking for some anti-
spam activist to win an auction, and then file
a complaint if follow-up spam arrives.

There are self-appointed internet gumshoes out
there. When they think they've latched onto a
spammer, there's no limit to their endeavours.
The dslreports.com forum readership went after
one earlier this year - digging up and posting
photos, criminal records, tax records, whatever
they could find on the "spammer". I didn't
follow it long enough to see how it turned out.

--
Regards, PO Box 248
Bob Niland Enterprise
Kansas USA
which, due to spam, is: 67441-0248
email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
http://www.access-one.com/rjn

Unless otherwise specifically stated, expressing
personal opinions and NOT speaking for any
employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:47:02 GMT, "RipCurl"
wrote:

Hey you spammed, you were complained about to eBay.
How can "we" complain to eBay without evidence?
seems eBay had enough "evidence" to prove that you are indeed a spammer, a
rule breaker, and don't give a **** about their guidelines.

Along with cursing and not using your real name here, you've just made
the statement that he was NARUed for spam. There's zero evidence for
this. Perhaps Frank was NARUed for this, perhaps not, perhaps for good
reason, perhaps not. I don't know, and I've seen no evidence that
anyone else does either. I'm not defending or attacking Frank. He's
knowledgeable about coins and has his share of satisfied repeat
customers, but I don't know him and have never bought anything from
him (he doesn't sell the types of coins I collect).

I'm jumping in here because I take issue with people who level these
attacks based on nothing. You would never talk this way to somebody in
person unless you were deliberately trying to get punched in the nose.
You do so here because you can, because you can use a fake name and
level these charges, no matter if they're true or false, without
repercussion. You're not alone. Some people with more courage but just
as little decency use their real names to make up lies about other
people. It's all Usenet junk, why Usenet is such a turnoff for many
people, why many people who've initially lurked go away without
becoming active posters.

--

Email me at (delete "remove this")

Coin Collecting: Consumer Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

"Dale Hallmark" wrote
"Bob Niland" wrote
Dale Hallmark wrote:
I bought from Frank and might do so again.

Off eBay? On eBay? Both? Which first?

On Ebay only

He did send emails to me about his auction
until I asked him to stop.


Why did you ask him to stop sending you the emails? Didn't you appreciate it?


Had you ever opted in?

No

How did you get on the list?


I bought from him.
I have had others do the same.
I am not saying it is wrong or right,
or weather it is Technically or Legally spam or not.
I considered it as such but he removed me when requested.
I wish the other unwanted emails that I get would do the same when I request it
but it just seems to get me on a different list.
Dale


Bottom line: Frank spammed: he sent unsolicited, commercial emails
to former ebay buyers, in clear and direct violation of ebay's TOS, which define such
contact as spam.

link

"Bob Niland" wrote
, Dale Hallmark wrote:

I bought from Frank and might do so again.
Off eBay? On eBay? Both? Which first?
On Ebay only

He did send emails to me about his auction
until I asked him to stop.
Had you ever opted in?
No

How did you get on the list?
I bought from him.

Frank has a legit issue with customer emailing,
but what you've just described is not it.

Sending UCE to customers acquired via eBay is
not just ordinary spam, it's a clear violation
of the eBay terms & conditions.

If Frank keeps this up, he will get NARU'd again,
for spam, and it will likely be permanent.

I have had others do the same.

I would file a complaint on any seller that did
that to me, as would many eBay users. It is a
very risky activity.

I am not saying it is wrong or right, or whether
it is Technically or Legally spam or not.

Netnews is a great place to equivocate about the
definition of "is". But based of what you've
just said, eBay's opinion will be unequivocal:
"spam" - off with his head!
Don't bother arguing with me. Convince Meg.

The way to do what Frank wants to do is:
* Link each auction to the About-Me page.
* Link the About-Me page to the off-eBay site.
* Have an option to subscribe to a newsletter
on the off-eBay site.
* Also discretely put the invitation link in
the .SIG of emails sent to the winner - but
don't push it.
* If the customer goes to the Opt-In form,
have them enter their preferred email address
(don't just assume the eBay-linked one).
* Capture a permanent record of every opt-in.
* Make sure there's an Opt-Out form too.

Anything less than that risks NARU-for-spam,
even if the customer had a pre-eBay relationship
with you (.e.g, it could be argued that you
learned the email address from eBay).

--
Regards, PO Box 248
Bob Niland Enterprise
Kansas USA
which, due to spam, is: 67441-0248
email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
http://www.access-one.com/rjn

Unless otherwise specifically stated, expressing
personal opinions and NOT speaking for any
employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

"Bob Niland" wrote
"Bob Niland" wrote
, Dale Hallmark wrote:
I bought from Frank and might do so again.

Off eBay? On eBay? Both? Which first?

On Ebay only

He did send emails to me about his auction
until I asked him to stop.

Had you ever opted in?

No

How did you get on the list?

I bought from him.

Frank has a legit issue with customer emailing,
but what you've just described is not it.
Sending UCE to customers acquired via eBay is
not just ordinary spam, it's a clear violation
of the eBay terms & conditions.
If Frank keeps this up, he will get NARU'd again,
for spam, and it will likely be permanent.


Again??????????????!!!!!


He's still NARUed right now!!!!!!!!!!!!

And how do you or any of us, not privy to the
'private' emails that Frank is sending his cronies,
know that he *wasn't* NARUed for spamming?

His interpretation of what he's doing, vis'a'vis UCE, is
that it isn't spam: if that's why he was NARUed,
of course, in his own mind, he wasn't NARUed for spamming!!!!

link