Why so negative about the APS?

Recently I joined the American Philatelic Society, mainly to get The
American Philatelist, but I thought I might also benefit from some of their
other programs. I am quite impressed by the magazine; each issue seems to
have something for everyone, and it's certainly an attractive journal. I've
had communication with several different staff members about various topics
and have been impressed with their friendliness and efficiency. But now the
question -- Why does APS seem to get so much "negative press"?

Shortly after I joined APS I mentioned it my stamp club; the only comment
came from our outspoken president, who said, "Well, that's your problem!"

My club receives The American Philatelist every month, and it's offered to
anyone who wants to take it home to read, and then return. Sometimes there's
no one at all willing to take it! As far as I know, there's only one other
APS member in our club.

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about the
APS. Am I missing something?

Bob Ingraham

"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
But now the
question -- Why does APS seem to get so much "negative press"?


Must be I've been too wrapped up in other things to notice, but I had not
really been aware of the "negative press." Sure the Match Factory purchase
got a number of vocal people stirred up. That's been covered pretty well on
rcsd and in other forums, too. Frankly, I think the dues are darn cheap for
what you get and was surprised to see a drop in membership when the increase
went into effect. (Former President Peter McCann had predicted the drop and
I guess he was pretty much on target, but it seems odd that a few bucks
would make that much difference to several thousand members.)

Other than your club member comments (or lack thereof), where are you
hearing/reading the negative remarks?

And if your club has such a low opinion of APS, why do they continue their
membership? (I'm assuming the club *is* a member since it gets AP.)

Mike

Bob,
If you are young enough then life membership is an excellent way to go.
chabro


"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
Recently I joined the American Philatelic Society, mainly to get The
American Philatelist, but I thought I might also benefit from some of
their
other programs. I am quite impressed by the magazine; each issue seems to
have something for everyone, and it's certainly an attractive journal.
I've
had communication with several different staff members about various
topics
and have been impressed with their friendliness and efficiency. But now
the
question -- Why does APS seem to get so much "negative press"?

Shortly after I joined APS I mentioned it my stamp club; the only comment
came from our outspoken president, who said, "Well, that's your problem!"

My club receives The American Philatelist every month, and it's offered to
anyone who wants to take it home to read, and then return. Sometimes
there's
no one at all willing to take it! As far as I know, there's only one other
APS member in our club.

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about
the
APS. Am I missing something?

Bob Ingraham

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:14:32 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

Recently I joined the American Philatelic Society, mainly to get The
American Philatelist, but I thought I might also benefit from some of their
other programs. I am quite impressed by the magazine; each issue seems to
have something for everyone, and it's certainly an attractive journal. I've
had communication with several different staff members about various topics
and have been impressed with their friendliness and efficiency. But now the
question -- Why does APS seem to get so much "negative press"?

Shortly after I joined APS I mentioned it my stamp club; the only comment
came from our outspoken president, who said, "Well, that's your problem!"

My club receives The American Philatelist every month, and it's offered to
anyone who wants to take it home to read, and then return. Sometimes there's
no one at all willing to take it! As far as I know, there's only one other
APS member in our club.

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about the
APS. Am I missing something?

No, not from them. I like the APS library. Always responsive, always
nice, always a winner all the way around.

There are plenty of ne'erdowells in the world and when they have a
burr up their butts, many times other people take the blame for their
insecurities / inadequacies / resentments. Sometimes directly,
sometimes indirectly.

Most times it's sour grapes because they were caught at something -or-
are playing the bleeding liberal on the edge of constitutional rights
or some stooooopid other concept.

Ever notice the venom here about APS? They have never done me any
harm.

Tracy Barber

Some of APS leaders participate in this NG, what I personally appreciate
(hello Ada, Lloyd, ...

--
Victor Manta

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org
Art on Stamps: http://values.ch
Romania Shown by Its Stamps: http://marci-postale.com
Communism on Stamps: http://www.values.ch/Communism/
Spanish Africa: http://www.values.ch/sna-site/
Remove "um" from the e-mail address to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
snip

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about
the
APS. Am I missing something?

Bob Ingraham

Hi to you, Victor!

Some people gripe about APS because they don't know anything about it. They
think it is some sort of government-like authority and they distrust
authority. But in fact APS is just ordinary collectors who have joined
together to help each other in various ways, such as making the exchange of
information (and the storage of information in the library) easier.

Once in a while someone runs afoul of APS because we DO enforce a code of
ethics. Like the incarcerated who always were "really" innocent of the acts
that got them locked up, these folks were NEVER "really" guilty of what got
them suspended or expelled from APS, and they tend to carry very vocal
grudges. Stamp collectors are pretty articulate as a group, and those who
feel they have been "wronged" by the system can be very bitter. Bitter and
articulate is a bad combination.

But most of the negatives I have heard - and there really haven't been that
many - start as "APS is out of touch with the average collector." I ALWAYS
ask "in what way," as I'm genuinely concerned when people feel that way. I
have yet to have anyone follow up on that question. Nobody seems to come up
with a single example of what APS is doing that is out of touch....but they
seem awfully sure that we must be doing SOMETHING wrong! I've also been told
that APS is snobby rich people who look down their noses at "ordinary"
collectors. C'mon! I am not now nor have I ever been rich - or snobby! I
know APS members who are living on Social Security. I knew an APS member who
got free food from food banks for that matter. We share a love of our hobby
and a desire to make it a stronger and healthier hobby. That's it, folks. No
power trips, no hidden agendas. APS is collectors helping each other enjoy
the hobby. Pretty suspicious, eh?

Ada

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
Some of APS leaders participate in this NG, what I personally appreciate
(hello Ada, Lloyd, ...

--
Victor Manta

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org
Art on Stamps: http://values.ch
Romania Shown by Its Stamps: http://marci-postale.com
Communism on Stamps: http://www.values.ch/Communism/
Spanish Africa: http://www.values.ch/sna-site/
Remove "um" from the e-mail address to reply
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
snip

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about
the
APS. Am I missing something?

Bob Ingraham

From: "Ada Prill"
Organization: Road Runner
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:13:50 GMT
Subject: Why so negative about the APS?

Hi to you, Victor!

Some people gripe about APS because they don't know anything about it. They
think it is some sort of government-like authority and they distrust
authority. But in fact APS is just ordinary collectors who have joined
together to help each other in various ways, such as making the exchange of
information (and the storage of information in the library) easier.

Once in a while someone runs afoul of APS because we DO enforce a code of
ethics. Like the incarcerated who always were "really" innocent of the acts
that got them locked up, these folks were NEVER "really" guilty of what got
them suspended or expelled from APS, and they tend to carry very vocal
grudges. Stamp collectors are pretty articulate as a group, and those who
feel they have been "wronged" by the system can be very bitter. Bitter and
articulate is a bad combination.

But most of the negatives I have heard - and there really haven't been that
many - start as "APS is out of touch with the average collector." I ALWAYS
ask "in what way," as I'm genuinely concerned when people feel that way. I
have yet to have anyone follow up on that question. Nobody seems to come up
with a single example of what APS is doing that is out of touch....but they
seem awfully sure that we must be doing SOMETHING wrong! I've also been told
that APS is snobby rich people who look down their noses at "ordinary"
collectors. C'mon! I am not now nor have I ever been rich - or snobby! I
know APS members who are living on Social Security. I knew an APS member who
got free food from food banks for that matter. We share a love of our hobby
and a desire to make it a stronger and healthier hobby. That's it, folks. No
power trips, no hidden agendas. APS is collectors helping each other enjoy
the hobby. Pretty suspicious, eh?

Ada

I think that perhaps Ada, and Tracy, have hit the nail squarely -- a few
vocal grouches tend to stand out, much like a mean drunk stands out
anywhere.

I honestly can't think of any specific complaints I have heard, except for
the way the APS handled the bidding scandal, but I've forgotten the details.
Perhaps it's more that I rarely see any overt enthusiasm for the
organization, and that seems strange: we complain all the time about how
stamp collecting is disappearing*as a hobby, but as a group we collectors
don't seem to support the major organizations that stand the best chance of
helping the hobby to thrive.

I myself do have one complaint, about the high cost of handling Stamp Store
orders from foreign customers, but I've had conversations with Ada and
another member about that, and I think things will work out.

Bob Ingraham

Just one more comment: it is easy to say one is an APS member and make
comments that reflect poorly on the APS when one is not in fact a member. A
couple of years ago someone wrote a letter to the editor of Mekeels and
Stamps claiming that APS was just a dealers group and had little regard for
non-dealer members. The letter was signed, but a quick search showed that
there had never been a member by that name, nor was anyone by that name at
the address given. A little more sleuthing turned up the probable real
identity of the writer, who had been expelled from APS several years back
for dishonesty. The person he had cheated was a dealer, hence the axe to
grind.

Recently we had a troll here who styled itself an APS member, but since
neither name nor APS number was given, there is no reason to believe an APS
member wrote that garbage. It presumably is trying to somehow gain credence
for its slime by claiming to be a member. Anyone who wants to gain stature
by association with APS but hides behind an anonymous remailer is probably
not actually a member. And any member posting publically the unfounded
smears that this creature spews would be held accountable by APS for such
conduct if identifible.

Ada
APS 7665-141515 (Life Member)
APS Vice President


"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
Recently I joined the American Philatelic Society, mainly to get The
American Philatelist, but I thought I might also benefit from some of
their
other programs. I am quite impressed by the magazine; each issue seems to
have something for everyone, and it's certainly an attractive journal.
I've
had communication with several different staff members about various
topics
and have been impressed with their friendliness and efficiency. But now
the
question -- Why does APS seem to get so much "negative press"?

Shortly after I joined APS I mentioned it my stamp club; the only comment
came from our outspoken president, who said, "Well, that's your problem!"

My club receives The American Philatelist every month, and it's offered to
anyone who wants to take it home to read, and then return. Sometimes
there's
no one at all willing to take it! As far as I know, there's only one other
APS member in our club.

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about
the
APS. Am I missing something?

Bob Ingraham

In article , "Victor Manta"
writes:

Some of APS leaders participate in this NG, what I personally appreciate
(hello Ada, Lloyd, ...

Hi back at ya, Victor.

I think Ada has made the case sufficiently well. When you're big and
successful, you're also an easy target.

"Victor Manta" wrote in message ...
Some of APS leaders participate in this NG, what I personally appreciate
(hello Ada, Lloyd, ...

--
Victor Manta

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org
Art on Stamps: http://values.ch
Romania Shown by Its Stamps: http://marci-postale.com
Communism on Stamps: http://www.values.ch/Communism/
Spanish Africa: http://www.values.ch/sna-site/
Remove "um" from the e-mail address to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
snip

It seems to me that I am always and forever hearing snide comments about
the
APS. Am I missing something?

Bob Ingraham


The American Numismatic Association (coins) also comes under a lot of
negative
press (both print and newsgroup comments) mostly for their policy
decisions and internal management structure. The executive director I
believe has bullied
the Board of Governors into silence in talking about certain issues
and that
has not exactly endeared the organization to a lot of collectors
hearts. After
an ugly lawsuit from some dealers over convention auction rights a few
years ago
and the forced ouster of the previous executive director who talked
too much
about certain things that some coin dealers didn't want to hear -- the
ANA
has became even less responsive to the coin collecting community.

Don't know how that compares to the APS but organizations go through
some
tough times (some are self inflicted) but at some point (hopefully)
the
darkness will lift.