Cleaned coins

How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

wrote in message
...
How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

I think I'm missing your point. How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? On the other hand, if you're saying you can get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.

On Jan 18, 8:57*am, "Bremick" wrote:

I think I'm missing your point. *How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? *Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? * Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? * On the other hand, if you're saying you can get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. *I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.

I guess you have a point, if the coin pleases you then enjoy it, and
dont fret; my son suggested the same thing. If you are investing,
then the slabbed coin is the way to go.

Jim

On Jan 18, 8:34*am, "
wrote:
On Jan 18, 8:57*am, "Bremick" wrote:



I think I'm missing your point. *How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? *Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? * Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? * On the other hand, if you're saying you can get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. *I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.

I guess you have a point, if the coin pleases you then enjoy it, and
dont fret; my son suggested the same thing. *If you are investing,
then the slabbed coin is the way to go.

Jim

The percentage of silver coins over fifty years old that have been
cleaned, washed or "worked on" at some time (usually just before you
buy it as "original surfaces") is very very high. Not 100%, but very
very high. It's the nature of the beast, silver.

oly

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:57:22 -0500, "Bremick" wrote:


wrote in message
...
How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

I think I'm missing your point. How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? On the other hand, if you're saying you can get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.


Aren't you contradicting yourself here? In the thread about my gold
coins graded by ANACS with "Details", you said: "Makes one wonder why
anyone would have paid to submit such obviously cruddy coins to a
TPG."

Here, though, you seem to be acknowledging that slabbed coins with
problems can result in a better deal when sold. Is the seller wrong
for wanting to get a better deal on sale? Wrong to want to provide
full disclosure of condition as verified by a TPG to a potential
buyer?

You also seem to be saying here that your AU coins with holes in them
please you. Three of my listings were for AU (55 or 58) coins, but -
to you - they are cruddy because they have been cleaned. A holed coin
is an acceptable collector item, but a cleaned coin is not? A holed
coin is the same as a "Details"-graded ex-jewelry coin because the
problem was caused by someone wanting to wear the coin as a
decoration. A hole is more damaging than a scratch.

Oly, in another post in this thread, acknowledges that a "very very
high" percentage of coins over fifty years old have been "cleaned,
washed or 'worked on' at some time". But, he gets into a lather when
a cleaned coin is offered for sale. And, he brags about spending an
hour or two pawing through a junk box at a flea market.

I'm piggy-backing some comments about other poster's comments in this
response to cut down on the noise, but when "Bob" (I think that was
the name) posted that he was selling coins to save his heirs from the
hassle of disposing of his coins, there was no great to-do. That's
the same thing I'm doing by getting rid of my problem coins that my
heirs won't know how to value. Seems sensible to me.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Jan 18, 10:56*am, tony cooper wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:57:22 -0500, "Bremick" wrote:

wrote in message
....
How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. *I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

I think I'm missing your point. *How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? *Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? * Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? * On the other hand, if you're saying you can get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. *I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins..

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? *In the thread about my gold
coins graded by ANACS with "Details", you said: *"Makes one wonder why
anyone would have paid to submit such obviously cruddy coins to a
TPG."

Here, though, you seem to be acknowledging that slabbed coins with
problems can result in a better deal when sold. *Is the seller wrong
for wanting to get a better deal on sale? Wrong to want to provide
full disclosure of condition as verified by a TPG to a potential
buyer?

You also seem to be saying here that your AU coins with holes in them
please you. *Three of my listings were for AU (55 or 58) coins, but -
to you - they are cruddy because they have been cleaned. *A holed coin
is an acceptable collector item, but a cleaned coin is not? *A holed
coin is the same as a "Details"-graded ex-jewelry coin because the
problem was caused by someone wanting to wear the coin as a
decoration. *A hole is more damaging than a scratch.

Oly, in another post in this thread, acknowledges that a "very very
high" percentage of coins over fifty years old have been "cleaned,
washed or 'worked on' at some time". *But, he gets into a lather when
a cleaned coin is offered for sale. *And, he brags about spending an
hour or two pawing through a junk box at a flea market. *

I'm piggy-backing some comments about other poster's comments in this
response to cut down on the noise, but when "Bob" (I think that was
the name) posted that he was selling coins to save his heirs from the
hassle of disposing of his coins, there was no great to-do. *That's
the same thing I'm doing by getting rid of my problem coins that my
heirs won't know how to value. *Seems sensible to me.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bob-tx isn't a money-grubbing asshole.

oly

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:57:22 -0500, "Bremick" wrote:


wrote in message
...
How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

I think I'm missing your point. How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? On the other hand, if you're saying you can
get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still
attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that
I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.


Aren't you contradicting yourself here? In the thread about my gold
coins graded by ANACS with "Details", you said: "Makes one wonder why
anyone would have paid to submit such obviously cruddy coins to a
TPG."

I am presuming that the OP bought the two coins that way since he wasn't
sure if they had been cleaned in the past. He didn't say he submitted them
himself to PCGS. And he perceives them as "beautiful looking", not cruddy.
Did you consider your auction coins the same?


Here, though, you seem to be acknowledging that slabbed coins with
problems can result in a better deal when sold. Is the seller wrong
for wanting to get a better deal on sale? Wrong to want to provide
full disclosure of condition as verified by a TPG to a potential
buyer?

You missed MY point. I questioned the OP whether he would expect to reap a
resale profit from a MS64-looking problem coin just because he may have
purchased it cheap, and because a cleaning wasn't apparent to him, and it
looked beautiful. Sure a slabbed key or scarce coin with problems can be a
good deal for a buyer on a budget who is willing to accept a problem coin at
a lower price. A seller also may benefit in a sale by having a problem key
coin slabbed.


You also seem to be saying here that your AU coins with holes in them
please you. Three of my listings were for AU (55 or 58) coins, but -
to you - they are cruddy because they have been cleaned. A holed coin
is an acceptable collector item, but a cleaned coin is not? A holed
coin is the same as a "Details"-graded ex-jewelry coin because the
problem was caused by someone wanting to wear the coin as a
decoration. A hole is more damaging than a scratch.

That's right, they do please me. I probably called yours cruddy because
they looked cruddy, cleaned or not. I've seen many cleaned coins that don't
look cruddy. In my case, I was glad to be able to buy a $300 coin for $50
and a $900 coin for $100. They are both original and attractive examples
except for the small neat hole. Otherwise, I would not likely have an
example of either in my collection. Damage is not always ugly. Do an eBay
search sometime on "holed dollar" and you'll find my opinion is apparently
shared by others. In your case, I simply wondered why anyone would have
wasted the grading fees on an unattractive coin that would likely not bring
any more than its bullion value, raw or slabbed.


Oly, in another post in this thread, acknowledges that a "very very
high" percentage of coins over fifty years old have been "cleaned,
washed or 'worked on' at some time". But, he gets into a lather when
a cleaned coin is offered for sale. And, he brags about spending an
hour or two pawing through a junk box at a flea market.

I can't speak for Oly. He seems pretty clear in his opinions. Maybe he
just has a "thing" against cleaned coins being hyped on rcc. I don't recall
him bragging, but I do seem to recall his post about looking in a dealer's
junk box.


I'm piggy-backing some comments about other poster's comments in this
response to cut down on the noise, but when "Bob" (I think that was
the name) posted that he was selling coins to save his heirs from the
hassle of disposing of his coins, there was no great to-do. That's
the same thing I'm doing by getting rid of my problem coins that my
heirs won't know how to value. Seems sensible to me.

Sorry if you expected a to-do. I for one did offer a comment to him. I
couldn't care less about your motives for selling your coins here or
anywhere. That's your business. I simply looked at what you provided a
link to and commented that the slabbed coins looked cruddy. I'm sure that
didn't affect the outcome of your auctions, but next time I'll keep them to
myself.

On Jan 18, 12:59*pm, "Bremick" wrote:
"tony cooper" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:57:22 -0500, "Bremick" wrote:

wrote in message
....
How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. *I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

I think I'm missing your point. *How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? *Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? * Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? * On the other hand, if you're saying you can
get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still
attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree. *I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that
I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? *In the thread about my gold
coins graded by ANACS with "Details", you said: *"Makes one wonder why
anyone would have paid to submit such obviously cruddy coins to a
TPG."

I am presuming that the OP bought the two coins that way since he wasn't
sure if they had been cleaned in the past. *He didn't say he submitted them
himself to PCGS. *And he perceives them as "beautiful looking", not cruddy.
Did you consider your auction coins the same?



Here, though, you seem to be acknowledging that slabbed coins with
problems can result in a better deal when sold. *Is the seller wrong
for wanting to get a better deal on sale? Wrong to want to provide
full disclosure of condition as verified by a TPG to a potential
buyer?

You missed MY point. *I questioned the OP whether he would expect to reap a
resale profit from a MS64-looking problem coin just because he may have
purchased it cheap, and because a cleaning wasn't apparent to him, and it
looked beautiful. *Sure a slabbed key or scarce coin with problems can be a
good deal for a buyer on a budget who is willing to accept a problem coin at
a lower price. *A seller also may benefit in a sale by having a problem key
coin slabbed.



You also seem to be saying here that your AU coins with holes in them
please you. *Three of my listings were for AU (55 or 58) coins, but -
to you - they are cruddy because they have been cleaned. *A holed coin
is an acceptable collector item, but a cleaned coin is not? *A holed
coin is the same as a "Details"-graded ex-jewelry coin because the
problem was caused by someone wanting to wear the coin as a
decoration. *A hole is more damaging than a scratch.

That's right, they do please me. *I probably called yours cruddy because
they looked cruddy, cleaned or not. *I've seen many cleaned coins that don't
look cruddy. *In my case, I was glad to be able to buy a $300 coin for $50
and a $900 coin for $100. *They are both original and attractive examples
except for the small neat hole. *Otherwise, I would not likely have an
example of either in my collection. *Damage is not always ugly. *Do an eBay
search sometime on "holed dollar" and you'll find my opinion is apparently
shared by others. *In your case, I simply wondered why anyone would have
wasted the grading fees on an unattractive coin that would likely not bring
any more than its bullion value, raw or slabbed.



Oly, in another post in this thread, acknowledges that a "very very
high" percentage of coins over fifty years old have been "cleaned,
washed or 'worked on' at some time". *But, he gets into a lather when
a cleaned coin is offered for sale. *And, he brags about spending an
hour or two pawing through a junk box at a flea market.

I can't speak for Oly. *He seems pretty clear in his opinions. *Maybe he
just has a "thing" against cleaned coins being hyped on rcc. *I don't recall
him bragging, but I do seem to recall his post about looking in a dealer's
junk box.



I'm piggy-backing some comments about other poster's comments in this
response to cut down on the noise, but when "Bob" (I think that was
the name) posted that he was selling coins to save his heirs from the
hassle of disposing of his coins, there was no great to-do. *That's
the same thing I'm doing by getting rid of my problem coins that my
heirs won't know how to value. *Seems sensible to me.

Sorry if you expected a to-do. *I for one did offer a comment to him. * I
couldn't care less about your motives for selling your coins here or
anywhere. *That's your business. *I simply looked at what you provided a
link to and commented that the slabbed coins looked cruddy. *I'm sure that
didn't affect the outcome of your auctions, but next time I'll keep them to
myself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Old ****t-ade didn't catch that I was referencing SILVER coins over 50
years old.

Gold coins should be pristine, especially if it's common U.S. type.

****t-ades always twist things; people don't lie for the sake of lying
- they lie to cover up another sin. In his case, unreasonable
unmerited avarice.

oly

On Jan 18, 1:55*pm, oly wrote:
On Jan 18, 12:59*pm, "Bremick" wrote:





"tony cooper" wrote in message

.. .

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 08:57:22 -0500, "Bremick" wrote:

wrote in message
...
How badly does a past cleaning (not real obvious) effect the value of
a scarce coin ? I would think it would still be worth more than a
circulated coin, although the grading services will not grade them. *I
have an MS64 looking 1923 S SLQuarter in a PCGS holder rated Genuine,
and an ungraded MS62 looking raw 1884 CC Morgan which may have been
cleaned in the past. Both beautiful looking coins, More reasons to buy
graded coins which are more scarce.

Jim

I think I'm missing your point. *How does your opening question relate to
your last recommendation? *Are you saying it's wise to buy nice looking
scarce coins that have been slabbed as Genuine? * Would you expect to be
able to resell your MS64-looking PCGS-slabbed "genuine" 1923-S quarter for
more than you paid for it? * On the other hand, if you're saying you can
get
a better deal on a slabbed scarce coin with problems, but still
attractive,
than on an attractive one with no problems, I'm sure most would agree.. *I
have a couple AU-looking trade and seated dollars with holes in them that
I
bought cheaply but which please me as much as many of my undamaged coins.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? *In the thread about my gold
coins graded by ANACS with "Details", you said: *"Makes one wonder why
anyone would have paid to submit such obviously cruddy coins to a
TPG."

I am presuming that the OP bought the two coins that way since he wasn't
sure if they had been cleaned in the past. *He didn't say he submitted them
himself to PCGS. *And he perceives them as "beautiful looking", not cruddy.
Did you consider your auction coins the same?

Here, though, you seem to be acknowledging that slabbed coins with
problems can result in a better deal when sold. *Is the seller wrong
for wanting to get a better deal on sale? Wrong to want to provide
full disclosure of condition as verified by a TPG to a potential
buyer?

You missed MY point. *I questioned the OP whether he would expect to reap a
resale profit from a MS64-looking problem coin just because he may have
purchased it cheap, and because a cleaning wasn't apparent to him, and it
looked beautiful. *Sure a slabbed key or scarce coin with problems can be a
good deal for a buyer on a budget who is willing to accept a problem coin at
a lower price. *A seller also may benefit in a sale by having a problem key
coin slabbed.

You also seem to be saying here that your AU coins with holes in them
please you. *Three of my listings were for AU (55 or 58) coins, but -
to you - they are cruddy because they have been cleaned. *A holed coin
is an acceptable collector item, but a cleaned coin is not? *A holed
coin is the same as a "Details"-graded ex-jewelry coin because the
problem was caused by someone wanting to wear the coin as a
decoration. *A hole is more damaging than a scratch.

That's right, they do please me. *I probably called yours cruddy because
they looked cruddy, cleaned or not. *I've seen many cleaned coins that don't
look cruddy. *In my case, I was glad to be able to buy a $300 coin for $50
and a $900 coin for $100. *They are both original and attractive examples
except for the small neat hole. *Otherwise, I would not likely have an
example of either in my collection. *Damage is not always ugly. *Do an eBay
search sometime on "holed dollar" and you'll find my opinion is apparently
shared by others. *In your case, I simply wondered why anyone would have
wasted the grading fees on an unattractive coin that would likely not bring
any more than its bullion value, raw or slabbed.

Oly, in another post in this thread, acknowledges that a "very very
high" percentage of coins over fifty years old have been "cleaned,
washed or 'worked on' at some time". *But, he gets into a lather when
a cleaned coin is offered for sale. *And, he brags about spending an
hour or two pawing through a junk box at a flea market.

I can't speak for Oly. *He seems pretty clear in his opinions. *Maybe he
just has a "thing" against cleaned coins being hyped on rcc. *I don't recall
him bragging, but I do seem to recall his post about looking in a dealer's
junk box.

I'm piggy-backing some comments about other poster's comments in this
response to cut down on the noise, but when "Bob" (I think that was
the name) posted that he was selling coins to save his heirs from the
hassle of disposing of his coins, there was no great to-do. *That's
the same thing I'm doing by getting rid of my problem coins that my
heirs won't know how to value. *Seems sensible to me.

Sorry if you expected a to-do. *I for one did offer a comment to him. * I
couldn't care less about your motives for selling your coins here or
anywhere. *That's your business. *I simply looked at what you provided a
link to and commented that the slabbed coins looked cruddy. *I'm sure that
didn't affect the outcome of your auctions, but next time I'll keep them to
myself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Old ****t-ade didn't catch that I was referencing SILVER coins over 50
years old.

Gold coins should be pristine, especially if it's common U.S. type.

****t-ades always twist things; people don't lie for the sake of lying
- they lie to cover up another sin. *In his case, unreasonable
unmerited avarice.

oly- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

P.S. You are NOT "Old ****t-ade", Mr. Remick!!!

Perhaps I could have bottom-posted elsewhere.

Sincerely,

oly

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:58:43 -0800 (PST), oly wrote:

Bob-tx isn't a money-grubbing asshole.

Interesting comment from someone who brags about spending his weekends
grubbing through a flea market junk box for two hours hoping to find
an undervalued item so he can take advantage of the seller.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida