Question About Belgian Parcel Post - Paper Undulé

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally.
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy

Tracy--"ondule" cancellations on 19th century French stamps are ones with a "wavy" outer circle.

For three examples of "ondule" cancels, go to Guy Maggay's site at:

http://www.chez.com/memorial/

and scroll down on the left-hand column (formes). (For those who don't want to click on links to unknown sites, the
"ondule" wave is similar to a sine wave.)

I'd not take it to mean laid paper with straight lines, but would be willing to be convinced that it might mean laid
paper with wavy laid lines.

Stan

wrote in message ...

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally.
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:48:50 GMT, "Stan Fairchild"
wrote:

Tracy--"ondule" cancellations on 19th century French stamps are ones with a "wavy" outer circle.

Yes, I know the cancels you mean. I've seen them on Type Sameuse
quite a bit and some on Type Sage.

For three examples of "ondule" cancels, go to Guy Maggay's site at:

http://www.chez.com/memorial/

and scroll down on the left-hand column (formes). (For those who don't want to click on links to unknown sites, the
"ondule" wave is similar to a sine wave.)

That would make sense. I've been to Guy's site many times and we've
discussed it before.

I'd not take it to mean laid paper with straight lines, but would be willing to be convinced that it might mean laid
paper with wavy laid lines.

Here's the rub, however... I've found at least 38 - 40 with these
"lines" in the paper. The may be wavy to someone else, but the surely
look straight to me.

My thinking is:

a) if you could lay the stamp face down on a table.
b) drop down to the edge of the table
c) look at the stamp in 2D, length and height.
d) the paper may be "wavy" that way

*-----------------*
|Colis Post-|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| P.O. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Brussels |
*-----------------*

There are 4 - 5 "lines" per stamp. Above is abbreviated.

This would be instead of visually seeing the line wave, but rather the
height of the line is "wavy". Kind like waves at the beach. Very
difficult to discern there, unless had very fine measurement tools.

I too thought of laid paper, but it is not quite the same.

Since I have found more than 1 or 2, this is not a random phenomenon
nor is it localized to one area of the country - the cancels are
fairly spread out. They do start in 1930. C.O.B. states the 3F was
introduced in 1929, but nothing about the 3F.

Speculation: I think that some of this paper was introduced to the
printing process mid-stream. -OR- at least mixed with regular, not
"undulé" papier.

Anyway, this has caught my interest. The CV value is 4x that of the
normal stamps - which in this case - is still nothing overall, but it
does extend my cancels DB to another level. I haven't touched this
level yet. There are a few other types of paper I'll be asking and
reporting about in the future.

Well, this is my data about the 4F so far:

1) 2 Different paper types - not simply a watermark, although it may
appear as such.

2) Plenty of shade differences without changelings.

3) Postal as well as various RR type and other service cancels abound.

Thanks!

Tracy



wrote in message ...

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally.
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy

In article ,
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:48:50 GMT, "Stan Fairchild"
wrote:

Tracy--"ondule" cancellations on 19th century French stamps are ones with a
"wavy" outer circle.

Yes, I know the cancels you mean. I've seen them on Type Sameuse
quite a bit and some on Type Sage.

For three examples of "ondule" cancels, go to Guy Maggay's site at:

http://www.chez.com/memorial/

and scroll down on the left-hand column (formes). (For those who don't want
to click on links to unknown sites, the
"ondule" wave is similar to a sine wave.)

That would make sense. I've been to Guy's site many times and we've
discussed it before.

I'd not take it to mean laid paper with straight lines, but would be willing
to be convinced that it might mean laid
paper with wavy laid lines.

Here's the rub, however... I've found at least 38 - 40 with these
"lines" in the paper. The may be wavy to someone else, but the surely
look straight to me.

My thinking is:

a) if you could lay the stamp face down on a table.
b) drop down to the edge of the table
c) look at the stamp in 2D, length and height.
d) the paper may be "wavy" that way

*-----------------*
|Colis Post-|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| P.O. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Brussels |
*-----------------*

There are 4 - 5 "lines" per stamp. Above is abbreviated.

This would be instead of visually seeing the line wave, but rather the
height of the line is "wavy". Kind like waves at the beach. Very
difficult to discern there, unless had very fine measurement tools.

I too thought of laid paper, but it is not quite the same.

Since I have found more than 1 or 2, this is not a random phenomenon
nor is it localized to one area of the country - the cancels are
fairly spread out. They do start in 1930. C.O.B. states the 3F was
introduced in 1929, but nothing about the 3F.

Speculation: I think that some of this paper was introduced to the
printing process mid-stream. -OR- at least mixed with regular, not
"undulé" papier.

Anyway, this has caught my interest. The CV value is 4x that of the
normal stamps - which in this case - is still nothing overall, but it
does extend my cancels DB to another level. I haven't touched this
level yet. There are a few other types of paper I'll be asking and
reporting about in the future.

Well, this is my data about the 4F so far:

1) 2 Different paper types - not simply a watermark, although it may
appear as such.

2) Plenty of shade differences without changelings.

3) Postal as well as various RR type and other service cancels abound.

Thanks!

Tracy



wrote in message
.. .

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally.
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy


Hi Tracy

I'm no expert on Belgian stamps but a native French speaker. The
description you make is compatible with the wording in the COB. For the
paper to be «ondulé» it has to have lines in it, the lines themselves do
not have to be «wavy» A ribbed or laid paper could be correctly, but
not precisely, described as «ondulé». The question is: how many lines,
or put in another way: how far apart the lines? One could also wonder
how and where in the papermaking process are these lines produced?
Unfortunately, the COB has no description or definition for this term.

As for the occurence of this variety, I see that the CV of the wavy
paper variety is only 1¤, whereas the plain paper stapms are quoted at
0,25¤. I would then expect the variety to be quite common, as witnessed
by your numbers.

f.r.p., the French language newsgroup might be a better place for this
question as some Belgian collectors usually read it.

By the way, how is the big project going?

Regards

Richard

On Feb 25, 11:13 am, Richard Thouin wrote:
In article ,



wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:48:50 GMT, "Stan Fairchild"
wrote:

Tracy--"ondule" cancellations on 19th century French stamps are ones with a
"wavy" outer circle.

Yes, I know the cancels you mean. I've seen them on Type Sameuse
quite a bit and some on Type Sage.

For three examples of "ondule" cancels, go to Guy Maggay's site at:

http://www.chez.com/memorial/

and scroll down on the left-hand column (formes). (For those who don't want
to click on links to unknown sites, the
"ondule" wave is similar to a sine wave.)

That would make sense. I've been to Guy's site many times and we've
discussed it before.

I'd not take it to mean laid paper with straight lines, but would be willing
to be convinced that it might mean laid
paper with wavy laid lines.

Here's the rub, however... I've found at least 38 - 40 with these
"lines" in the paper. The may be wavy to someone else, but the surely
look straight to me.

My thinking is:

a) if you could lay the stamp face down on a table.
b) drop down to the edge of the table
c) look at the stamp in 2D, length and height.
d) the paper may be "wavy" that way

*-----------------*
|Colis Post-|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| P.O. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Brussels |
*-----------------*

There are 4 - 5 "lines" per stamp. Above is abbreviated.

This would be instead of visually seeing the line wave, but rather the
height of the line is "wavy". Kind like waves at the beach. Very
difficult to discern there, unless had very fine measurement tools.

I too thought of laid paper, but it is not quite the same.

Since I have found more than 1 or 2, this is not a random phenomenon
nor is it localized to one area of the country - the cancels are
fairly spread out. They do start in 1930. C.O.B. states the 3F was
introduced in 1929, but nothing about the 3F.

Speculation: I think that some of this paper was introduced to the
printing process mid-stream. -OR- at least mixed with regular, not
"undulé" papier.

Anyway, this has caught my interest. The CV value is 4x that of the
normal stamps - which in this case - is still nothing overall, but it
does extend my cancels DB to another level. I haven't touched this
level yet. There are a few other types of paper I'll be asking and
reporting about in the future.

Well, this is my data about the 4F so far:

1) 2 Different paper types - not simply a watermark, although it may
appear as such.

2) Plenty of shade differences without changelings.

3) Postal as well as various RR type and other service cancels abound.

Thanks!

Tracy

wrote in message
.. .

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally..
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy

Hi Tracy

I'm no expert on Belgian stamps but a native French speaker. The
description you make is compatible with the wording in the COB. For the
paper to be «ondulé» it has to have lines in it, the lines themselves do
not have to be «wavy» A ribbed or laid paper could be correctly, but
not precisely, described as «ondulé». The question is: how many lines,
or put in another way: how far apart the lines? One could also wonder
how and where in the papermaking process are these lines produced?
Unfortunately, the COB has no description or definition for this term.

As for the occurence of this variety, I see that the CV of the wavy
paper variety is only 1¤, whereas the plain paper stapms are quoted at
0,25¤. I would then expect the variety to be quite common, as witnessed
by your numbers.

f.r.p., the French language newsgroup might be a better place for this
question as some Belgian collectors usually read it.

By the way, how is the big project going?

Regards

Richard



I was about to post this when Richard beat me to it.

I would suggest that in English, the closest term that
we have is ribbed paper. A paper that is distinctly
corrugated is described as a RIBBED paper.
An example is the middle layer of cardboard.
On stamp paper, the ribs would be much smaller.

Blair

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:13:29 -0500, Richard Thouin
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:48:50 GMT, "Stan Fairchild"
wrote:

Tracy--"ondule" cancellations on 19th century French stamps are ones with a
"wavy" outer circle.

Yes, I know the cancels you mean. I've seen them on Type Sameuse
quite a bit and some on Type Sage.

For three examples of "ondule" cancels, go to Guy Maggay's site at:

http://www.chez.com/memorial/

and scroll down on the left-hand column (formes). (For those who don't want
to click on links to unknown sites, the
"ondule" wave is similar to a sine wave.)

That would make sense. I've been to Guy's site many times and we've
discussed it before.

I'd not take it to mean laid paper with straight lines, but would be willing
to be convinced that it might mean laid
paper with wavy laid lines.

Here's the rub, however... I've found at least 38 - 40 with these
"lines" in the paper. The may be wavy to someone else, but the surely
look straight to me.

My thinking is:

a) if you could lay the stamp face down on a table.
b) drop down to the edge of the table
c) look at the stamp in 2D, length and height.
d) the paper may be "wavy" that way

*-----------------*
|Colis Post-|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| P.O. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Brussels |
*-----------------*

There are 4 - 5 "lines" per stamp. Above is abbreviated.

This would be instead of visually seeing the line wave, but rather the
height of the line is "wavy". Kind like waves at the beach. Very
difficult to discern there, unless had very fine measurement tools.

I too thought of laid paper, but it is not quite the same.

Since I have found more than 1 or 2, this is not a random phenomenon
nor is it localized to one area of the country - the cancels are
fairly spread out. They do start in 1930. C.O.B. states the 3F was
introduced in 1929, but nothing about the 3F.

Speculation: I think that some of this paper was introduced to the
printing process mid-stream. -OR- at least mixed with regular, not
"undulé" papier.

Anyway, this has caught my interest. The CV value is 4x that of the
normal stamps - which in this case - is still nothing overall, but it
does extend my cancels DB to another level. I haven't touched this
level yet. There are a few other types of paper I'll be asking and
reporting about in the future.

Well, this is my data about the 4F so far:

1) 2 Different paper types - not simply a watermark, although it may
appear as such.

2) Plenty of shade differences without changelings.

3) Postal as well as various RR type and other service cancels abound.

Thanks!

Tracy



wrote in message
.. .

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally.
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy


Hi Tracy

I'm no expert on Belgian stamps but a native French speaker. The
description you make is compatible with the wording in the COB. For the
paper to be «ondulé» it has to have lines in it, the lines themselves do
not have to be «wavy» A ribbed or laid paper could be correctly, but
not precisely, described as «ondulé». The question is: how many lines,
or put in another way: how far apart the lines? One could also wonder
how and where in the papermaking process are these lines produced?
Unfortunately, the COB has no description or definition for this term.

That is true. Actually, Willy Balasse has a more descriptive way of
stating it. Except that my French - English dictionary seems to be
somewhat limited, although looks extensive. Between that and Babel
Fish, I was SOL. :^) Maybe my French class works have the verbiage.
--- "vergé"

As for the occurence of this variety, I see that the CV of the wavy
paper variety is only 1¤, whereas the plain paper stapms are quoted at
0,25¤. I would then expect the variety to be quite common, as witnessed
by your numbers.

I'd say maybe about 3 - 5% of what I have. That's why I didn't make a
stink about it, trying to get a world cruise.

f.r.p., the French language newsgroup might be a better place for this
question as some Belgian collectors usually read it.

Maybe a place for me in the future anyway, with my France et al.

By the way, how is the big project going?

Well, this question filled in another type of data to be collected,
although I do have paper type already. It's neat to see it coming
together.

I have my pre-1914 sorted by cancel and 90% of the hexagons scanned.
It's bull work, to be sure.

I have conversion software to move it from postgreSQL to MySQL because
my web host doesn't offer postgreSQL. Straightforward process...

So, I'm sorting and cleaning up some more stamps before I start to
truly "publish" something. This allows me to get some more cancel
types, paper types, color types (almost 200 variations at this point)
and so forth in place. Just want to make sure I'm allowing for enough
info to be collected to make some sense in the future and not have to
redo something.

Slow and steady! I just can't wait for the 1923 - 1941 issues. I'll
have to go into hibernation for about 6 months. It seems that just
about every different set has quirks with them. I guess that's the
fun of collecting them. :^)

Tracy

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:54:53 -0800 (PST), "Blair (TC)"
wrote:

On Feb 25, 11:13 am, Richard Thouin wrote:
In article ,



wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:48:50 GMT, "Stan Fairchild"
wrote:

Tracy--"ondule" cancellations on 19th century French stamps are ones with a
"wavy" outer circle.

Yes, I know the cancels you mean. I've seen them on Type Sameuse
quite a bit and some on Type Sage.

For three examples of "ondule" cancels, go to Guy Maggay's site at:

http://www.chez.com/memorial/

and scroll down on the left-hand column (formes). (For those who don't want
to click on links to unknown sites, the
"ondule" wave is similar to a sine wave.)

That would make sense. I've been to Guy's site many times and we've
discussed it before.

I'd not take it to mean laid paper with straight lines, but would be willing
to be convinced that it might mean laid
paper with wavy laid lines.

Here's the rub, however... I've found at least 38 - 40 with these
"lines" in the paper. The may be wavy to someone else, but the surely
look straight to me.

My thinking is:

a) if you could lay the stamp face down on a table.
b) drop down to the edge of the table
c) look at the stamp in 2D, length and height.
d) the paper may be "wavy" that way

*-----------------*
|Colis Post-|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| P.O. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Brussels |
*-----------------*

There are 4 - 5 "lines" per stamp. Above is abbreviated.

This would be instead of visually seeing the line wave, but rather the
height of the line is "wavy". Kind like waves at the beach. Very
difficult to discern there, unless had very fine measurement tools.

I too thought of laid paper, but it is not quite the same.

Since I have found more than 1 or 2, this is not a random phenomenon
nor is it localized to one area of the country - the cancels are
fairly spread out. They do start in 1930. C.O.B. states the 3F was
introduced in 1929, but nothing about the 3F.

Speculation: I think that some of this paper was introduced to the
printing process mid-stream. -OR- at least mixed with regular, not
"undulé" papier.

Anyway, this has caught my interest. The CV value is 4x that of the
normal stamps - which in this case - is still nothing overall, but it
does extend my cancels DB to another level. I haven't touched this
level yet. There are a few other types of paper I'll be asking and
reporting about in the future.

Well, this is my data about the 4F so far:

1) 2 Different paper types - not simply a watermark, although it may
appear as such.

2) Plenty of shade differences without changelings.

3) Postal as well as various RR type and other service cancels abound.

Thanks!

Tracy

wrote in message
.. .

Hi there -

I have a question about the paper that was used for the 1929-1930
parcel post stamps of Belgium. The 3, 4, 5, 6 & 4 sur 6 Franc
Brussels Central Post Office issues.

The C.O.B. (standard for Belgian dealers) catalog states that there
are varieties of the paper on the 3 & 4 Franc.

"papier undulé horizontalement"

In English translationese, this means - paper undulating horizontally.
Undulating meaning "waves" or some such. If someone can give me la
française version, please do.

I have, however, seen one stamp so far with what at first looked like
horizontal line cancel, but was in the paper itself. This is not wavy
looking straight on, but sideways it may refer to the line raised
somewhat on the paper, or the illusion of such?

An example cannot be given, except in real-time because of the way
this paper exhibits said properties - except perhaps to take a digital
picture in a watermark container. Hmmm... an idea.

So, in the final analysis, -could- the term above be: horizontally
lined paper?

Tracy

Hi Tracy

I'm no expert on Belgian stamps but a native French speaker. The
description you make is compatible with the wording in the COB. For the
paper to be «ondulé» it has to have lines in it, the lines themselves do
not have to be «wavy» A ribbed or laid paper could be correctly, but
not precisely, described as «ondulé». The question is: how many lines,
or put in another way: how far apart the lines? One could also wonder
how and where in the papermaking process are these lines produced?
Unfortunately, the COB has no description or definition for this term.

As for the occurence of this variety, I see that the CV of the wavy
paper variety is only 1¤, whereas the plain paper stapms are quoted at
0,25¤. I would then expect the variety to be quite common, as witnessed
by your numbers.

f.r.p., the French language newsgroup might be a better place for this
question as some Belgian collectors usually read it.

By the way, how is the big project going?

Regards

Richard



I was about to post this when Richard beat me to it.

I would suggest that in English, the closest term that
we have is ribbed paper. A paper that is distinctly
corrugated is described as a RIBBED paper.
An example is the middle layer of cardboard.
On stamp paper, the ribs would be much smaller.

Thanks Blair! Just confirms the thoughts...

Tracy,

as with the Belgian Catalogue there are 2 versions - a French and a Dutch
one. The Dutch says

SPA170A 3F horizontaal geribd papier
SPA171A 4F horizontaal geribd papier

and 'geribd' corresponds with 'ribbed' or 'laid'.

Probably the Flemish translator had difficulty finding the French word for
it

As it was printed in recess - wet in those days and not yet dry - there
should be differences in size of the design. It's time to measure them
properly

groetjes, Rein

Op Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:13:29 +0100 schreef Richard Thouin
:



Hi Tracy

I'm no expert on Belgian stamps but a native French speaker. The
description you make is compatible with the wording in the COB. For the
paper to be «ondulé» it has to have lines in it, the lines themselves do
not have to be «wavy» A ribbed or laid paper could be correctly, but
not precisely, described as «ondulé». The question is: how many lines,
or put in another way: how far apart the lines? One could also wonder
how and where in the papermaking process are these lines produced?
Unfortunately, the COB has no description or definition for this term.

As for the occurence of this variety, I see that the CV of the wavy
paper variety is only 1¤, whereas the plain paper stapms are quoted at
0,25¤. I would then expect the variety to be quite common, as witnessed
by your numbers.

f.r.p., the French language newsgroup might be a better place for this
question as some Belgian collectors usually read it.

By the way, how is the big project going?

Regards

Richard



--
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:
http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:29:52 +0100, Rein wrote:

Tracy,

as with the Belgian Catalogue there are 2 versions - a French and a Dutch
one. The Dutch says

SPA170A 3F horizontaal geribd papier
SPA171A 4F horizontaal geribd papier

and 'geribd' corresponds with 'ribbed' or 'laid'.

Hmmm... my 1992 catalog "Officiele Catalogus" doesn't even make a
mention of this. Are you using a newer catalog? My French C.O.B.
catalog is 2004.

Per the word "ribbed", one may think that you could feel them. You
can't. It comes closer to the true meaning than the French version!
(Unless, of course, there's some "back door" slang in the Nationalized
language.)

Probably the Flemish translator had difficulty finding the French word for
it

Aha! Balasse did also, it appears.

As it was printed in recess - wet in those days and not yet dry - there
should be differences in size of the design. It's time to measure them
properly

Uhoh... a new job! Actually, with my microscope, I should be able to
do a pretty good test on them. By eye, one can see the lines - even
laying flat on the table, but the best way to view them is at an
angle. 45 degrees?

Thanks for your help.

Tracy



Op Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:13:29 +0100 schreef Richard Thouin
:



Hi Tracy

I'm no expert on Belgian stamps but a native French speaker. The
description you make is compatible with the wording in the COB. For the
paper to be «ondulé» it has to have lines in it, the lines themselves do
not have to be «wavy» A ribbed or laid paper could be correctly, but
not precisely, described as «ondulé». The question is: how many lines,
or put in another way: how far apart the lines? One could also wonder
how and where in the papermaking process are these lines produced?
Unfortunately, the COB has no description or definition for this term.

As for the occurence of this variety, I see that the CV of the wavy
paper variety is only 1¤, whereas the plain paper stapms are quoted at
0,25¤. I would then expect the variety to be quite common, as witnessed
by your numbers.

f.r.p., the French language newsgroup might be a better place for this
question as some Belgian collectors usually read it.

By the way, how is the big project going?

Regards

Richard

wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:29:52 +0100, Rein wrote:

as with the Belgian Catalogue there are 2 versions - a French and a Dutch
one. The Dutch says

SPA170A 3F horizontaal geribd papier
SPA171A 4F horizontaal geribd papier

and 'geribd' corresponds with 'ribbed' or 'laid'.

Hmmm... my 1992 catalog "Officiele Catalogus" doesn't even make a
mention of this. Are you using a newer catalog? My French C.O.B.
catalog is 2004.

Per the word "ribbed", one may think that you could feel them. You
can't. It comes closer to the true meaning than the French version!
(Unless, of course, there's some "back door" slang in the Nationalized
language.)

I have a Dutch copy of a 2007 catalogue, and it has the listing as
mentioned by Rein (although they're listed with an SP prefix, not SPA).
You should probably be familiar with ribbed stamps from Canadian
definitives - have a look through your Caricature low values and
Landscape high values (1972-1977), lots of those were issued on ribbed
paper. A few Centennials, Wildings and Environment stamps are also on
ribbed paper. The ribs on these Canadian stamps are very small,
certainly too small to be felt easily. Perhaps you can see them without
a magnifier, but with my eyes, I can't see them unless the stamp is
dirty. They're nothing at all like the gum breaker ridges on old
American stamps, for example. Whereas those stamps might have only 4
ridges across the stamp, Canadian ribbed stamps might have 40 or so.
Have a look at Level 8 on this page - the horizontal ribs on the 1c
Macdonald are clearly visible.

http://www.jlafontaine.com/index.php...1&sbc=&page=30

Now, I have no idea if that's what the Belgian catalogue is talking
about.

Ryan