A collecting forum. CollectingBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CollectingBanter forum » Collecting newsgroups » Pens & Pencils
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Long-term storage of ballpoints



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 1st 09, 08:45 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
The Visitor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints

Well then spray in an inert gas too, just incase oxygen has anything to
do with it?

Mike S. wrote:
Thanks for all the thoughts, folks.

In trying to strategize I'm first trying to understand the nature of the
process that makes ballpoint refills dry up and stop working.

For instance: is it evaporation of solvent? chemical reaction with oxygen
(oxidation), ozone, or other component of the air? a self-sustaining
chemical change that is smewhat independent of the environment?

My understanding is that ballpoint ink contains a mixture of volatile and
non-volatile solvents. If the evaporation of solvent is what causes aging,
then anything which prevents that should help. I came into this quoting a
web site that advocated placing refills in evacuated zip-lock bags. To my
mind, that would _increase_ evaporation of solvent by increasing the vapor
pressure of the solvent in an evacuated environment. A _pressurized_
storage vessel might do better.

If it's reaction with oxygen or other component of ambient air, then (as
was pointed out here) an "airtight" container made of a material that
actually allows slow diffusion of air would not do very well in the long
term.

For my part, I'm trying zip-lock bags which are then placed in a food
storage tub having rubberized seals along the mating surfaces.



Ads
  #12  
Old March 2nd 09, 07:53 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Bluesea[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" wrote in message
...
snip thread back-story

The other method is to dip the metal refill point-first into hot water
for a few seconds. It should not be boiling - think hot tea temperature.


Hot tea that's at a drinkable temperature? Black teas are properly brewed
using boiling water.

I've noticed that Parker and Papermate are both much tougher to write
with when they are cold than when they have been in a shirt pocket.


That makes sense because temperature affects viscosity and a shirt pocket
lends bodily warmth.


Hot tea must be *less* than 100 deg C. After 3 minutes infusing, it might
be 98 deg, or 95 deg. It's not boiling.


Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if you meant the boiling water
that's used to start the steep or the temperature after steeping or the
temperature when cool enough to drink.

Are you a tea fan? I like Whittard (UK), which came perilously close to
failure.


Yes, I like a variety of loose teas: black, green, and white. I buy most of
them from uptonteas.com because what's available where I live isn't much.

What's going on with Papermate? You can buy the metal refills anywhere
here, but if you want the pens, you have to buy second-hand on eBay, or
(as I did) find a pristine boxed sample in a charity shop.


Gee, I haven't noticed. I gave up on them many years ago when I started
exploring other bps and never went back. I tried a friend's in 2002 and
promptly bought her a Sensa (Minx? It's a short pen.) with a Fisher Space
refill because her Paper Mate gave her a huge writer's bump.

She loves the Sensa and didn't go back to her Paper Mate that she had been
using for journaling.

It may just be your locale. The website shows new pens:

http://www.papermate.com.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi, but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #13  
Old March 2nd 09, 09:56 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Jimmy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints

"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" wrote in message
...
snip thread back-story

The other method is to dip the metal refill point-first into hot
water for a few seconds. It should not be boiling - think hot tea
temperature.

Hot tea that's at a drinkable temperature? Black teas are properly
brewed using boiling water.

snip
Hot tea must be *less* than 100 deg C. After 3 minutes infusing, it
might be 98 deg, or 95 deg. It's not boiling.


Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if you meant the boiling
water that's used to start the steep or the temperature after steeping
or the temperature when cool enough to drink.

Are you a tea fan? I like Whittard (UK), which came perilously close
to failure.


Yes, I like a variety of loose teas: black, green, and white. I buy
most of them from uptonteas.com because what's available where I live
isn't much.

What's going on with Papermate? You can buy the metal refills
anywhere here, but if you want the pens, you have to buy second-hand
on eBay, or (as I did) find a pristine boxed sample in a charity
shop.


Gee, I haven't noticed. I gave up on them many years ago when I
started exploring other bps and never went back. I tried a friend's in
2002 and promptly bought her a Sensa (Minx? It's a short pen.) with a
Fisher Space refill because her Paper Mate gave her a huge writer's
bump.

She loves the Sensa and didn't go back to her Paper Mate that she had
been using for journaling.

It may just be your locale. The website shows new pens:

http://www.papermate.com.


Uh oh - another brand taken over by Sanford.

Perhaps it is just a local thing. I'm OK until I break or lose my one
anyway. Papermate rolls more easily than Parker and Cross. I only need a
ballpoint for outdoors and short notes.

When I tried a Fisher Space Pen a few years ago, it started out really
well, but soon took to making blobs. It could have just been a bad one.

--
Alan


  #14  
Old March 2nd 09, 11:46 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Bluesea[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" wrote in message
...
snip thread back-story


What's going on with Papermate? You can buy the metal refills anywhere
here, but if you want the pens, you have to buy second-hand on eBay, or
(as I did) find a pristine boxed sample in a charity shop.


Gee, I haven't noticed. I gave up on them many years ago when I started
exploring other bps and never went back. I tried a friend's in 2002 and
promptly bought her a Sensa (Minx? It's a short pen.) with a Fisher Space
refill because her Paper Mate gave her a huge writer's bump.

She loves the Sensa and didn't go back to her Paper Mate that she had
been using for journaling.

It may just be your locale. The website shows new pens:

http://www.papermate.com.


Uh oh - another brand taken over by Sanford.

Perhaps it is just a local thing. I'm OK until I break or lose my one
anyway. Papermate rolls more easily than Parker and Cross. I only need a
ballpoint for outdoors and short notes.

When I tried a Fisher Space Pen a few years ago, it started out really
well, but soon took to making blobs. It could have just been a bad one.


Yes, Sanford got it a while ago.

I go through more fines, but haven't had problems with any mediums, either.

I've noticed that people complain either about Fisher or Eversharp; they
like one or the other. For me, Eversharps leak and blob while Fishers work
well. Until...

My latest is a Telescoping pen and it was going along fine; I had gone
through the Fisher refill that came with it and am on the second. I was
doing a lot of stop-and-go writing in January and decided to simply lay the
pen down instead of retracting it while I thought and read. I forgot it
overnight and when I picked it up, it had blobs. Long story short, I
experimented and found that when I left the tip extended, it leaks and
develops blobs. When I retract the tip, it doesn't!

It doesn't make sense to me because there's no cap and the tip is exposed to
air whether extended or not. I don't think that was the problem with the
Eversharp refills because I had one in the Parker Jotter I keep in my car
and have the tip extended only while I actually use it.

shrug


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi, but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #15  
Old March 3rd 09, 08:56 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Jimmy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints

"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

snip thread back-story

What's going on with Papermate?....

snip
It may just be your locale. The website shows new pens:

http://www.papermate.com.


Uh oh - another brand taken over by Sanford.

snip
When I tried a Fisher Space Pen a few years ago, it started out
really well, but soon took to making blobs. It could have just been a
bad one.


Yes, Sanford got it a while ago.

I go through more fines, but haven't had problems with any mediums,
either.

I've noticed that people complain either about Fisher or Eversharp;
they like one or the other. For me, Eversharps leak and blob while
Fishers work well. Until...

My latest is a Telescoping pen and it was going along fine; I had gone
through the Fisher refill that came with it and am on the second. I
was doing a lot of stop-and-go writing in January and decided to
simply lay the pen down instead of retracting it while I thought and
read. I forgot it overnight and when I picked it up, it had blobs.
Long story short, I experimented and found that when I left the tip
extended, it leaks and develops blobs. When I retract the tip, it
doesn't!

It doesn't make sense to me because there's no cap and the tip is
exposed to air whether extended or not. I don't think that was the
problem with the Eversharp refills because I had one in the Parker
Jotter I keep in my car and have the tip extended only while I
actually use it.

shrug


When the point is retracted, there will be *less* evaporation, because
there will be less exposure to air currents. That's the only difference
I can think of.

Maybe I should try a Space Pen again. I've not seen the Eversharp, only
the Fisher models over here.

I also got a Montblanc ballpoint a year or so ago. I had low
expectations, but it's really very good - no blobbing (yet), and
relaxing, easy writing. It is far too fancy to use in the field, though,
and I have not managed to fit or force the refills into anything else.
Any ideas?

--
Alan


  #16  
Old March 4th 09, 02:30 AM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Bluesea[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...

I notice the Parker broad refills are back in production. Demand, or just
marketing whim? Originally they did broad, medium, fine and extra fine - I
tried them all in school.


I think it may be attributed to the current trend. For example, I have to be
careful that another mp doesn't walk away because I can't find mps that take
..5mm lead in the local stores anymore. While .5mm refills are available, mps
are only .7mm or 1.0 mm.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi, but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #17  
Old March 4th 09, 02:53 AM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Bluesea[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints


"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

snip thread back-story

What's going on with Papermate?....

snip
It may just be your locale. The website shows new pens:

http://www.papermate.com.

Uh oh - another brand taken over by Sanford.

snip
When I tried a Fisher Space Pen a few years ago, it started out really
well, but soon took to making blobs. It could have just been a bad one.


Yes, Sanford got it a while ago.

I go through more fines, but haven't had problems with any mediums,
either.

I've noticed that people complain either about Fisher or Eversharp; they
like one or the other. For me, Eversharps leak and blob while Fishers
work well. Until...

My latest is a Telescoping pen and it was going along fine; I had gone
through the Fisher refill that came with it and am on the second. I was
doing a lot of stop-and-go writing in January and decided to simply lay
the pen down instead of retracting it while I thought and read. I forgot
it overnight and when I picked it up, it had blobs. Long story short, I
experimented and found that when I left the tip extended, it leaks and
develops blobs. When I retract the tip, it doesn't!

It doesn't make sense to me because there's no cap and the tip is exposed
to air whether extended or not. I don't think that was the problem with
the Eversharp refills because I had one in the Parker Jotter I keep in my
car and have the tip extended only while I actually use it.

shrug


When the point is retracted, there will be *less* evaporation, because
there will be less exposure to air currents. That's the only difference I
can think of.

Maybe I should try a Space Pen again. I've not seen the Eversharp, only
the Fisher models over here.

I also got a Montblanc ballpoint a year or so ago. I had low expectations,
but it's really very good - no blobbing (yet), and relaxing, easy writing.
It is far too fancy to use in the field, though, and I have not managed to
fit or force the refills into anything else. Any ideas?


I didn't like the Eversharp pen because it was heavier than I like. The
refills, though, cost less than the Fisher refills. The discount store that
carried the Eversharps closed a couple of years ago so they're no longer
available in my town, either.

Since you didn't like the Fisher before, if you're thinking of buying a new
pen to try it again, I suggest that you buy a Parker Jotter or another
less-expensive-than-a-Fisher-Space pen that uses Parker-style refills and a
separate Fisher refill which comes with a white plastic adapter for Parker
pens. That way, if the Fisher doesn't work out for you, you can still use
the pen with the original refill which is fairly universal and wouldn't have
wasted the cost of a Fisher pen.

I can't think of anything for your Mont Blanc at this time. Because the
refills are proprietary and the pen's too nice to take to the field, your
options are limited. I keep a Parker Jotter with a Fisher refill in my car
and the Fisher X-750 in my Day-Timer. The Telescoping pen is my carry pen
when I don't take a fp. Other than that, I use fps which I also use with my
Day-Timer. Supposing that you take your planner and/or journal to the field,
that leaves your car, your desk at home, or dress-up occasions for your MB.
I wouldn't leave it in my desk at the office, if I were you, unless your
desk has a good lock.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi, but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #18  
Old March 4th 09, 03:39 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Aaron W. Hsu[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 62
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints

"Bluesea" writes:

I can't think of anything for your Mont Blanc at this time. Because the
refills are proprietary and the pen's too nice to take to the field, your
options are limited.


I wonder what kind of field work we are talking about? I have to admit
to living dangerously with my MontBlanc. It's just that I like writing
with it so much that I prefer to take it out to the "field" (which is
just my University and in a backpack). Ironically, the one time I did
damage it wasn't because of the field work, but because I left it in my
pocket once and it went through the dryer. That wasn't a pretty thing to
see, though most of the pen was just fine.

--
Aaron W. Hsu | http://www.sacrideo.us
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to
live at the expense of everybody else." -- Frederic Bastiat
+++++++++++++++ ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) ++++++++++++++
  #19  
Old March 4th 09, 04:24 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Bluesea[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints


"Aaron W. Hsu" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" writes:

I can't think of anything for your Mont Blanc at this time. Because the
refills are proprietary and the pen's too nice to take to the field, your
options are limited.


I wonder what kind of field work we are talking about?


Actually, I don't remember him saying. I'm just used to that expression
being used by U.S. Army personnel. He could be an archeologist or a surveyor
for all I know.

I have to admit
to living dangerously with my MontBlanc. It's just that I like writing
with it so much that I prefer to take it out to the "field" (which is
just my University and in a backpack).


Sorry, IMO, school is too civilized to qualify as "the field." More dirt,
rocks, rough terrain and the possibility of walking in mud past your ankles
or thigh-high grass would qualify.

Ironically, the one time I did
damage it wasn't because of the field work, but because I left it in my
pocket once and it went through the dryer. That wasn't a pretty thing to
see, though most of the pen was just fine.


OUCH! How did your clothes come out? Blue?


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi, but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.


  #20  
Old March 4th 09, 09:06 PM posted to alt.collecting.pens-pencils
Jimmy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default Long-term storage of ballpoints

"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

"Jimmy" wrote in message
...
"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

snip thread back-story
Maybe I should try a Space Pen again. I've not seen the Eversharp,
only the Fisher models over here.

I also got a Montblanc ballpoint a year or so ago. I had low
expectations, but it's really very good - no blobbing (yet), and
relaxing, easy writing. It is far too fancy to use in the field,
though, and I have not managed to fit or force the refills into
anything else. Any ideas?


I didn't like the Eversharp pen because it was heavier than I like.
The refills, though, cost less than the Fisher refills. The discount
store that carried the Eversharps closed a couple of years ago so
they're no longer available in my town, either.

Since you didn't like the Fisher before, if you're thinking of buying
a new pen to try it again, I suggest that you buy a Parker Jotter or
another less-expensive-than-a-Fisher-Space pen that uses Parker-style
refills and a separate Fisher refill which comes with a white plastic
adapter for Parker pens. That way, if the Fisher doesn't work out for
you, you can still use the pen with the original refill which is
fairly universal and wouldn't have wasted the cost of a Fisher pen.

I can't think of anything for your Mont Blanc at this time. Because
the refills are proprietary and the pen's too nice to take to the
field, your options are limited. I keep a Parker Jotter with a Fisher
refill in my car and the Fisher X-750 in my Day-Timer. The Telescoping
pen is my carry pen when I don't take a fp. Other than that, I use fps
which I also use with my Day-Timer. Supposing that you take your
planner and/or journal to the field, that leaves your car, your desk
at home, or dress-up occasions for your MB. I wouldn't leave it in my
desk at the office, if I were you, unless your desk has a good lock.


Well, I just got a Fisher Space Pen refill. I already had a metal Parker
body handy, so I put it in that, with the adaptor, like you suggested.

I got it cheap (half-price), but for a bad reason. One of the two local
pen shops is closing down, and trying to get rid of stock. I snapped up
two bottles of Diamine ink (Royal Blue and Scarlet) as well. The blue
looks like a good alternative to Noodler's plain blue.

The Space Pen feels loose and easy to roll. I'll try it instead of the
Papermate for a bit, and see how it shapes up.

--
Alan


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
coins for long term investment. robert esposito Coins 11 July 30th 08 05:59 PM
Which is the best long term investment? Ira Stein Coins 40 November 12th 05 02:31 AM
Long-Term Antique Preservation Steve S. General 0 January 8th 04 04:50 PM
Long term storage of BEP packs? CVeRiTy Paper Money 3 November 19th 03 10:03 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CollectingBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.