"Real" Money

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, Padraic Brown wrote:

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?

Well, mine (US near DC) for one.

That's the reason. :-) In the real world homes
do not have a media price of $500,000 or more (except
maybe in San Francisco, DC, and a few other places,
and money is tight, real tight, mostly because of the
price of gasoline.

It's not the price of gasoline that's causing the problem, if it was we
would all be destitute here in the UK, cars in the USA have very large
engines that burn a lot of it, that's the problem. If a USA motorist was to
buy a car that had twice the MPG then in effect their gasoline costs would
half.


The average person earns $9 an hour if the
professionals are not included, which is hardly
enough to avoid becoming homeless.

Why should somebody who spends every
cent they have before the next payday worry about
"real money"?

Any attempt to change anything in an
economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
would be foolhardy,

In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a problem
with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar bill?


And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
coins to become worthless.

If they were indeed "worthless" why is the dealer offering to sell them,
have you never seen a USA coin in a junk box? Of course you have but that
doesn't mean that the US dollar is worthless does it.

A 1793 chain cent was recently auctioned in the UK for £9,200, it was bought
at a jumble sale in 1960 for very little, the seller at that time must have
presumed it was worthless, but they were wrong. Billy


Joe Fischer

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real" money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on
the planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations
on the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers


Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward coin and papermoney set up.

Oh, I see, now that I've called your bluff, you change the parameters.
Clever move.

Mr. J.


What bluff and what parameters were changed?

I thank you for calling me clever as that's never happened to me before.
Billy

Your original challenge allowed a planet-wide search. The modified
challenge limited the search to non-third-world countries.

As for the compliment, you are welcome. You are indeed clever, and a
good guy in my book, too!

James


I changed to non third world countries to give a non apples and oranges
comparison, I believe that India has a very low value coin that is
sometimes drilled to be used as a washer as a washer is more expensive to
buy than the face value of the low value coin.

I can understand the need for a very low value coin in third world
countries but not in one of the richest country on the planet the USA, it
just silly and a waste of taxpayers' money. Billy

As silliness goes, demand that the cent should exist is pretty much a
lightweight, and, if you want to talk in terms of waste of taxpayers' money,
hardly even registers on the radar, comparatively speaking.

James

note.boy wrote:

In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a problem
with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar bill?

There are two issues here. First, it was _because_ of the euro
introduction that such major cash setup changes were accepted here. Had
you simply wanted to, say, replace the Dutch kwartje (25 ct gulden) with
a 20 ct coin, or suggested to do away with the German 2 DM coin, people
would have moaned at least ;-) But when you go through a major
changeover anyway, such relatively minor modifications are easier to do.

And then, as for the 1 cent coin in Euroland, yes, they are expensive to
make and not terribly useful. Why did we have to have them? Partly
because in Germany for example we used to have a 1 pfennig coin (worth
half a cent) - and if the smallest euro denomination was ten times as
"big", that would support the popular myth that the euro made things
more expensive. Fortunately in some euro countries the 1 and 2 ct coins
are practically not needed due to rounding regulations ...

Christian

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real" money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on
the planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations
on the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers


Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward coin and papermoney set up.

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?



You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you
would.

Never had any problem buying stuff with our money. As long as it works,
who cares what assortment of denominations a country uses? The only thing
backwards here is your concerns and your Econ 101 logic.


I hate to repeat myself but you insists on replying without reading my posts
carefully and posting the first thought that enters your head.

The USA goverment is wasting millions producing low value coins and notes
that have no place in a country like the USA, the UK government dumped the
1/2 penny coin and the ten bob note ages ago, the persons responsible for
the lack of similar action for the one cent coin and one dollar note in the
USA need to be fired. I can't make it any plainer than that.

Try responding directly to my comments above without flying off at a
tangent, please.

If you disagree with my statement, give the reasons, that's how a discussion
works.


Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?

The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better
not go there if it bugs you.

Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.

Were you able to use our backward currency to buy things? You must've if
you came back a couple times.



Yes and the one cent coin was a pain in the bum, I left behind several dozen
when I headed for the airport, many are received in change but few are
spent.

Would you support the introduction of a 1/4 cent coin?



The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin) in
1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one dollar
note) in 1967.

So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still
has 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
People like to use them, I guess. Same here.

If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.

Did you just come in off the college picket line with that? We use all
of our coins and notes, as do people in all countries. You call that
wasting? Wait a few years and there will be no need for cash at all,
except for your "Lucys' Economic Advice 50¢" stand along the street
outside your house.



I've never been to college and never been on a picket line and I fail to see
what that has to do with anything, or was that a pathetic attempt to
introduce politics into the argument?

100 years after cash has been abolished everywhere else I fear that the USA
will still be using the one cent coin.

The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.

Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?

You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the solution.

And the "problem" is? Are we not following the UK model correctly?

The problem is that the USA goverment is ignoring the problem and so are
you, no matter how times it's brought to your attention you fail to
acknowledge its existance.


The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point of
view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very attractive
issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three different
banks that change fairly regularly. Billy

Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none get
lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged by
size in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one denomination
with another. I think our bills look just fine, too, pretty much the way
our money has looked for well over half a century. Gives consumers
confidence and comfort. Frequent currency design changes can create
confusion.

Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins in
my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the
coins are made of.

I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.

Then you'll LOVE our postage stamps. Try some. Different sizes, too.
And you ought to spend some of those US notes, rather than let them
accumulate so much that you have to "rummage".



Is there still a one cent stamp?

I wish I had spent more as the value of the US$ against the UK£ has
plummeted recently.


Have you ever heard of the expression "move with the times", you must be
sad that barter is no longer with us and that we no longer live in caves.
Billy

Gee, no. I've never heard of that expression. Are you saying we should
have "moved" with certain other countries? By the way, check how the
economies of those other advanced countries are doing compared to ours.
If you know how. The US must be wallowing in the dumps, based on your
assessment of our pace with the world.

Bruce


The better the US economy performs then the more useless the one cent coin
and one dollar bill becomes, but you must be aware of that already surely?
Billy

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:04:54 GMT, "note.boy"
wrote:

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?

You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you would.

I wonder why more than half of US currency is
oversees, banks all over the world request dollars from
the New York Federal Reserve, they have a warehouse
with skids of currency stacked 10 or 15 meters high just
to provide currency to foreign banks on request.

Is it because it is so backward?

Frankly, the US coins are fine, the quarter is really
all that is needed for parking meters and most machines
here, and making exact change seems to be the fastest
and least troublesome way to do business.
Maybe if all Americans were liberals, they wouldn't
care if they got exact change or not.

It isn't likely we will do things just because others
think we should, making auto parts metric was a huge
mistake costing Americans billions, with no advantage,
it didn't help sell American cars overseas.

American cars don't sell overseas because we have corners in Europe and
American cars go round corners very badly, and the interior quality is
dreadful, and they use too much fuel, and most of them are very ugly. Billy


Every citizen should be proud of their culture
and system, but part of freedom and liberty is not
being critical of the culture in other countries.

Joe Fischer

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
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"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
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"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real" money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on
the planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all
nations on the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers


Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward coin and papermoney set up.

Oh, I see, now that I've called your bluff, you change the parameters.
Clever move.

Mr. J.


What bluff and what parameters were changed?

I thank you for calling me clever as that's never happened to me
before. Billy

Your original challenge allowed a planet-wide search. The modified
challenge limited the search to non-third-world countries.

As for the compliment, you are welcome. You are indeed clever, and a
good guy in my book, too!

James


I changed to non third world countries to give a non apples and oranges
comparison, I believe that India has a very low value coin that is
sometimes drilled to be used as a washer as a washer is more expensive to
buy than the face value of the low value coin.

I can understand the need for a very low value coin in third world
countries but not in one of the richest country on the planet the USA, it
just silly and a waste of taxpayers' money. Billy

As silliness goes, demand that the cent should exist is pretty much a
lightweight, and, if you want to talk in terms of waste of taxpayers'
money, hardly even registers on the radar, comparatively speaking.

James

You're hitting it pretty much on the head, IMO. Way down the list of
priorities on the government's money waste list. Any cost savings by not
printing dollar bills would be diluted by the fact that we'd still be
printing six other denominations, and eliminating one of them wouldn't
silence the presses nor provide more money for pork pies. The only real
savings would come by not printing ANY currency. That may yet come in some
of our lifetimes.

Bruce

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:22:36 GMT, "note.boy"
wrote:

Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward
coin and papermoney set up.

Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
circulation
similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?

Didn't they mint one cent and two cent euros? :-)

Name another country that has a 15 Billion dollar
economy. Maybe the money system has something
to do with economic activity.

Joe Fischer


News flash for Joe.

The bigger a country's economy the less need there is for low value notes
and coins.

So why is the one cent coin and one doller note still being produced? Billy

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 "Bruce Remick" wrote:

The public doesn't always choose the most efficient combinations of bills
and coins. If they did, our 50 and $2 bill would be used more. They're
still available but people choose to use two quarters or two ones.
Bruce

I guess there are people who carry 100 and 50
dollar notes, but I don't know any.

The 50 is a useless denomination, the 20 is
the real workhorse, but I have started asking for all
5s when I get cash from the bank.
I don't get a lot of cash from the bank, for
two reasons, I pay for groceries with a credit card,
and I have a small hobby printing business that
I get cash from.

The clerk at short stop was swamped with
20s today, it is difficult for them to keep enough
5s and 10s.

In the real world here, $5 is a lot of money,
almost all fast food places have a $1 menu, and
there are stores where every single item is a dollar,
that couldn't be without China though.

There is a huge hostility against the US
world wide, with only 2 percent growth rate,
the economies of other countries can't keep up
even with 6 or 8 percent growth.

The number of cents that recirculate must
be huge, even with the number minted each year,
the only place I see all BU cents in registers is at
Walmart, Kroger and other big chains.

I found 3 rolls of 1994 BU halves I forgot
I had, and started spending them this week, and
everyone was grabbed and put away, they won't
circulate.

Apparently novelty is a factor in saving
coins, moreso than intrinsic value or numismatics.

Joe Fischer


The £2 coin is not terribly common in circulation in the UK and know a
lady who saves all she gets, sometimes exchanging two £1 coins for one,
and she cashes them in at Christmas and holiday time. Billy

When I went to the UK last October on vacation, the only £2 coin I
encountered the whole time was at the currency exchange at Dulles Airport as
I was getting ready to leave. Not a one in country. I do like their £1
coins. I would think that a small thick coin like that would have a better
chance of being accepted here in the US than the ones we have to choose from
now.

Bruce

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real" money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on
the planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all nations
on the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers


Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward coin and papermoney set up.

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?



You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you
would.

Never had any problem buying stuff with our money. As long as it works,
who cares what assortment of denominations a country uses? The only
thing backwards here is your concerns and your Econ 101 logic.


I hate to repeat myself but you insists on replying without reading my
posts carefully and posting the first thought that enters your head.

The USA goverment is wasting millions producing low value coins and notes
that have no place in a country like the USA, the UK government dumped the
1/2 penny coin and the ten bob note ages ago, the persons responsible for
the lack of similar action for the one cent coin and one dollar note in
the USA need to be fired. I can't make it any plainer than that.

Try responding directly to my comments above without flying off at a
tangent, please.

If you disagree with my statement, give the reasons, that's how a
discussion works.


Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?

The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better
not go there if it bugs you.

Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.

Were you able to use our backward currency to buy things? You must've if
you came back a couple times.



Yes and the one cent coin was a pain in the bum, I left behind several
dozen when I headed for the airport, many are received in change but few
are spent.

Would you support the introduction of a 1/4 cent coin?



The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin)
in 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one
dollar note) in 1967.

So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still
has 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint both?
People like to use them, I guess. Same here.

If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.

Did you just come in off the college picket line with that? We use all
of our coins and notes, as do people in all countries. You call that
wasting? Wait a few years and there will be no need for cash at all,
except for your "Lucys' Economic Advice 50¢" stand along the street
outside your house.



I've never been to college and never been on a picket line and I fail to
see what that has to do with anything, or was that a pathetic attempt to
introduce politics into the argument?

100 years after cash has been abolished everywhere else I fear that the
USA will still be using the one cent coin.

The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.

Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?

You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the solution.

And the "problem" is? Are we not following the UK model correctly?

The problem is that the USA goverment is ignoring the problem and so are
you, no matter how times it's brought to your attention you fail to
acknowledge its existance.


The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point
of view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very
attractive issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from three
different banks that change fairly regularly. Billy

Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none
get lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged
by size in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one
denomination with another. I think our bills look just fine, too,
pretty much the way our money has looked for well over half a century.
Gives consumers confidence and comfort. Frequent currency design
changes can create confusion.

Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins
in my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what the
coins are made of.

I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.

Then you'll LOVE our postage stamps. Try some. Different sizes, too.
And you ought to spend some of those US notes, rather than let them
accumulate so much that you have to "rummage".



Is there still a one cent stamp?

Yup.

http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stor...2913&langId=-1

James

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, Padraic Brown wrote:

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?

Well, mine (US near DC) for one.

That's the reason. :-) In the real world homes
do not have a media price of $500,000 or more (except
maybe in San Francisco, DC, and a few other places,
and money is tight, real tight, mostly because of the
price of gasoline.

It's not the price of gasoline that's causing the problem, if it was we
would all be destitute here in the UK, cars in the USA have very large
engines that burn a lot of it, that's the problem. If a USA motorist was
to buy a car that had twice the MPG then in effect their gasoline costs
would half.

The UK has better public transportation options than the US, and tries to
conserve gasoline by taxing the hell out of it and out of anyone who insists
on driving a car into London, for example. Those who really need a car have
little choice but to consider mileage first. There are indeed a lot of big
cars with big engines here in the US, compared with most other countries.
This may be due to the greater use of the car or SUV here for long family
trips on interstate highways. In many European countries, there are
convenient and traditional rail options for this kind of travel. If we
could buy a car here that gets twice the mileage and which would serve all
our other needs, many would.

The average person earns $9 an hour if the
professionals are not included, which is hardly
enough to avoid becoming homeless.

Why should somebody who spends every
cent they have before the next payday worry about
"real money"?

Any attempt to change anything in an
economy that is 3 times the size of the next biggest
would be foolhardy,

In a word, euro, it caused no problems so why should the USA have a
problem with a minor change like dumping the one cent coin and one dollar
bill?

Probably because 99% of the US public doesn't see their cent and the dollar
as a problem. Walk in our shoes for a while if you can.



And a look in the foreign coin box at any flea
market or coin dealer shows just how easy it is for
coins to become worthless.

If they were indeed "worthless" why is the dealer offering to sell them,
have you never seen a USA coin in a junk box? Of course you have but that
doesn't mean that the US dollar is worthless does it.

Because he doesn't want to just throw them away, and there are always new
collectors who will pay a small price for hours of entertainment sorting and
cataloging minor coins from foreign countries. US coins in a US coin
dealers "junk" box? Well, we don't consider them junk, for one, unless
maybe they have been mutilated. What you *will* often find are circulated
obsolete US minor coins (Indian cents, Buffalo nickels, etc.) in a bargain
box.


A 1793 chain cent was recently auctioned in the UK for £9,200, it was
bought at a jumble sale in 1960 for very little, the seller at that time
must have presumed it was worthless, but they were wrong. Billy


Your point here?

Bruce