Cleaned Morgans and Peace Dollars...

For your perusal, listed below are 4 coins recently purchased on Ebay. Since
being a neophyte at this and realizing that "cleaned" seems to be a
perjorative word from the recent posts here and that in reviewing 100's of
listing rarely mentions a silver coin having been "cleaned," are these coins
cleaned? Did i get my pocket "cleaned" on these purchases? (Forget the MS65
stuff for sure, the dealer hasn't a clue what MS means..) TIA for the
collected/collecting wisdom of this group.

Here goes...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT


patrick

Always hard to tell from pictures, but.....

The first 3 look to be about AU's to me.
The 4th coin MIGHT (emphasize MIGHT) be MS, but almost impossible to tell
from the picture.

Just my opinion.

Wes


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"Patrick Rose" wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3925972298

One thing I can tell you is that the coin pictured in this auction is not an
1879-S Reverse of '78.


++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

Subject: Cleaned Morgans and Peace Dollars...
From: "Patrick Rose"
Date: 8/23/04 4:03 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

For your perusal, listed below are 4 coins recently purchased on Ebay. Since
being a neophyte at this and realizing that "cleaned" seems to be a
perjorative word from the recent posts here and that in reviewing 100's of
listing rarely mentions a silver coin having been "cleaned," are these coins
cleaned? Did i get my pocket "cleaned" on these purchases? (Forget the MS65
stuff for sure, the dealer hasn't a clue what MS means..) TIA for the
collected/collecting wisdom of this group.

Here goes...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...6000713&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5990578&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...5972298&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...6450889&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT


patrick



Hi Patrick,
Yeah, your wallet got cleaned a mite on these. They all look to be AU coins
to various degrees to me. So just consider the extra money you spend as
expenses for your education. I can tell you with every confidence, you haven't
paid as much as many others have for that education!
The first indication that these coins are not MS65 (or even Mint State for
that matter) is the lack of mint luster and that gray look in the fields from
slight wear. The devices show the same thing including some obvious wear. Go
to a dealers shop or to a coin show and look through some certified MS dollars.
They may not grade exactly as they are certified to (MS63, MS64 etc.), but you
can gain an understanding of mint luster, strike and lack of wear on coins that
are true MS coins this way.
There are some who post links to photos here on RCC that will help you do
the same thing. I hope Eric Tillery reads this, as he has some of the best
photos you'll see of silver dollars.
Again, don't get down because you spent too much, learn from it and vow to
do better next time.
With best regards, Pete

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:03:08 GMT, "Patrick Rose" is
alleged to have written:

For your perusal, listed below are 4 coins recently purchased on Ebay. Since
being a neophyte at this and realizing that "cleaned" seems to be a
perjorative word from the recent posts here and that in reviewing 100's of
listing rarely mentions a silver coin having been "cleaned," are these coins
cleaned? Did i get my pocket "cleaned" on these purchases? (Forget the MS65
stuff for sure, the dealer hasn't a clue what MS means..) TIA for the
collected/collecting wisdom of this group.

Here goes...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT


Looks good, but I'd grade it AU.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT


Looks good, but I can't tell if I'm looking at wear or weak strike. xf if it's
wear.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT


Doesn't look cleaned. Same comment as above.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT


Doesn't look cleaned. Might be unc.

Bruce

"Patrick Rose" wrote in message om...
For your perusal, listed below are 4 coins recently purchased on Ebay. Since
being a neophyte at this and realizing that "cleaned" seems to be a
perjorative word from the recent posts here and that in reviewing 100's of
listing rarely mentions a silver coin having been "cleaned," are these coins
cleaned? Did i get my pocket "cleaned" on these purchases? (Forget the MS65
stuff for sure, the dealer hasn't a clue what MS means..) TIA for the
collected/collecting wisdom of this group.

Here goes...

I haven't kept up with the Morgan/Peace dollar markets, so I don't
know if the prices you paid are too much or not. But overall I like
these coins except the third one. I think you have a good eye for
coins, Patrick.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

This is a decent AU. Doesn't look cleaned.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

This one may have been dipped and retoned. But still an attractive
dollar.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

Probably a cleaned XF.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWN:IT

Need a better photo to evaluate this one. It might be an MS63, or
maybe an AU58.


patrick

I'll repeat this for the original poster in case he missed it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3925972298

The coin pictured in this auction is NOT an 1879-S Reverse of 1878
++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

In article ,
ulsion (Phil DeMayo) wrote:

I'll repeat this for the original poster in case he missed it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3925972298

The coin pictured in this auction is NOT an 1879-S Reverse of 1878
++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

Phil,
It would be helpful to see/know about the characteristics of the true
1879-S Reverse of 1878 and how this coin doesn't measure up to it. What
are the clues that tell you this is mislabeled?

Thanks,

Scot

Scot Kamins wrote:

Phil,
It would be helpful to see/know about the characteristics of the true
1879-S Reverse of 1878 and how this coin doesn't measure up to it. What
are the clues that tell you this is mislabeled?

You can find pictures on the first page of the Morgan Dollar section of the
Redbook. The Reverse of 1878 is labeled as "Second Reverse"

The diagnostics for a Reverse of 1878 are a top arrow feather that is parallel
to the others and a flat (or concave) breast on the Eagle. In the subject
auction the top arrow feather is slanted and the Eagle's breast is
rounded....that is the third reverse.

The 1879-S Reverse of 1878 sells for a premium....especially in uncirculted
grades. I once had an MS-63 that cost me $220 (PCGS currently lists it at $360)
while you can probably get a regular 1879-S in MS-63 for under $40.

We used to have a regular poster here, Ed Eubanks, who bought up every
circulated 1879-S Rev. of '78 that he could afford, figuring they were
underpriced. He ended up, with the help of an experienced numismatist,
co-authoring a small book about them with another RCC poster....I believe the
other poster was David Wang.

As you might guess, there was quite a bit posted here about this particular
variety....including the various VAMS of the issue.

After-thought.....hmmm....I thought I had saved all of the scans from when I
sold the 50 or so different UNC Morgans I used to own, but I guess I didn't
save the image of the Rev. of '78. I believe Eric Tillery still may have the
coin. He sent it to PCGS and I was a bit shocked that they only gave it a 62. I
had cracked it out of a 63 slab....one of the "majors"....but I can't remember
which.

In any event, here's a nice proof-like regular 1879-S that I used to own and
purchased for a fraction of the price of the Rev. of '78:

http://members.aol.com/flip1948/coins/1879-S.jpg

You can clearly see the rounded breast on the Eagle in this scan and make out
the slanted top arrow feather. This was a really pretty coin.

Now here's a closed eBay auction for a real Rev. of '78 with good images that
clearly show the flat breast and parallel arrow feathers:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...tem=2261136058




++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

Phil,

Well, this was FAR more than I had hoped for.

Many thanks for this!!!

- Scot "Wavey tailfeather" Kamins

In article ,
ulsion (Phil DeMayo) wrote:

Scot Kamins wrote:

Phil,
It would be helpful to see/know about the characteristics of the true
1879-S Reverse of 1878 and how this coin doesn't measure up to it. What
are the clues that tell you this is mislabeled?

You can find pictures on the first page of the Morgan Dollar section of the
Redbook. The Reverse of 1878 is labeled as "Second Reverse"

The diagnostics for a Reverse of 1878 are a top arrow feather that is
parallel
to the others and a flat (or concave) breast on the Eagle. In the subject
auction the top arrow feather is slanted and the Eagle's breast is
rounded....that is the third reverse.

The 1879-S Reverse of 1878 sells for a premium....especially in uncirculted
grades. I once had an MS-63 that cost me $220 (PCGS currently lists it at
$360)
while you can probably get a regular 1879-S in MS-63 for under $40.

We used to have a regular poster here, Ed Eubanks, who bought up every
circulated 1879-S Rev. of '78 that he could afford, figuring they were
underpriced. He ended up, with the help of an experienced numismatist,
co-authoring a small book about them with another RCC poster....I believe the
other poster was David Wang.

As you might guess, there was quite a bit posted here about this particular
variety....including the various VAMS of the issue.

After-thought.....hmmm....I thought I had saved all of the scans from when I
sold the 50 or so different UNC Morgans I used to own, but I guess I didn't
save the image of the Rev. of '78. I believe Eric Tillery still may have the
coin. He sent it to PCGS and I was a bit shocked that they only gave it a 62.
I
had cracked it out of a 63 slab....one of the "majors"....but I can't
remember
which.

In any event, here's a nice proof-like regular 1879-S that I used to own and
purchased for a fraction of the price of the Rev. of '78:

http://members.aol.com/flip1948/coins/1879-S.jpg

You can clearly see the rounded breast on the Eagle in this scan and make out
the slanted top arrow feather. This was a really pretty coin.

Now here's a closed eBay auction for a real Rev. of '78 with good images that
clearly show the flat breast and parallel arrow feathers:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...item=226113605
8




++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits