Democratic Republic of the Congo -- These can't be legal, can they?

One cannot compare local postage costs in a third-world country to US or
European rates. One and a half cents in the Congo could very well pay for
an internal letter. That does not mean that the "stamps" were legitimate.
I was in Bolivia in 1965, and the internal letter rate was ridiculously low,
but I do not remember what it was. There was a toll on a certain road that
was the equivalent of less than 1 US cent. That made valueless
low-denomination notes very difficult to find, since people hoarded them to
pay the toll.

Tony

"Blair (TC)" wrote in message
oups.com...
Bob:

I agree.

When these stamps were "issued" (2002)
there were 300-350 Congolese Francs per US$.

Thus, the face value of each "stamp" was
only 1.428 cents to 1.667 cents.

Hardly a value needed for posting letters.

Currently, there are about 450 Congolese Francs
per US $, so each stamp's postal value has fallen
to about 1.111 cents US. (even moreso)

Blair




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Now we can say with conviction, "Bob Ingraham does NOT know his 'Sex
Bombs!'" I did a little Google research, in the interests of philately,
of course, and came up with the image upon which the "Ingrid Bergman"
bogus label is based. Here it is, along with the image of the label:

http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/brigitte.jpg

I wondered about the French inscription. It didn't seem right, but my
knowledge of French is surpassed only by my knowlege of Sex Bombs! Now,
gentlemen, please don't tell me that the Jane Fonda label actually
pictures Henry Winkler!

This discussion leads me to mention the book Leopold's Ghost, about the
rape of the Congo at the behest of its owner, King Leopold II of
Belgium. It is a blood-curdling look at what wealth and power do in the
hands of the men without a conscience (not that we didn't know), and
goes a long way towards explaining why the Congo region is today such a
human and environmental disaster. Leopold's henchmen used to
"encourage" the production of rubber by chopping the hands off workers
who failed to produce their quotas of latex. They also had a policy of
girdling the rubber trees to maximize production of latex; this, of
course, killed the trees.

Bob

1890
In July, the Brussels International Conference condemned slavery and
triggered the start of the anti-slavery campaign in Africa, at the
instigation of the King.

1904
Following the excesses committed by the Europeans in Africa, Leopold's
reputation and his overseas venture were questioned. The King set up an
International Commission of Inquiry, which recognised the merits of the
royal action in Congo, while pointing out abuses and shortcomings, which
Leopold II endeavoured to put right.

http://www.monarchie.be/en/monarchy/...eopold_II.html

History would be a great science if it were true.

--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bobstamp" wrote in message
ups.com...
Now we can say with conviction, "Bob Ingraham does NOT know his 'Sex
Bombs!'" I did a little Google research, in the interests of philately,
of course, and came up with the image upon which the "Ingrid Bergman"
bogus label is based. Here it is, along with the image of the label:

http://www.ingraham.ca/bob/brigitte.jpg

I wondered about the French inscription. It didn't seem right, but my
knowledge of French is surpassed only by my knowlege of Sex Bombs! Now,
gentlemen, please don't tell me that the Jane Fonda label actually
pictures Henry Winkler!

This discussion leads me to mention the book Leopold's Ghost, about the
rape of the Congo at the behest of its owner, King Leopold II of
Belgium. It is a blood-curdling look at what wealth and power do in the
hands of the men without a conscience (not that we didn't know), and
goes a long way towards explaining why the Congo region is today such a
human and environmental disaster. Leopold's henchmen used to
"encourage" the production of rubber by chopping the hands off workers
who failed to produce their quotas of latex. They also had a policy of
girdling the rubber trees to maximize production of latex; this, of
course, killed the trees.

Bob

In article ,
Victor Manta wrote:
1890
In July, the Brussels International Conference condemned slavery and
triggered the start of the anti-slavery campaign in Africa, at the
instigation of the King.

This was treated in the book that Bob mentioned, which described it as
basically a successful attempt by the King to cover up his treatment of
the natives.

1904
Following the excesses committed by the Europeans in Africa, Leopold's
reputation and his overseas venture were questioned. The King set up an
International Commission of Inquiry, which recognised the merits of the
royal action in Congo, while pointing out abuses and shortcomings, which
Leopold II endeavoured to put right.

Ditto

http://www.monarchie.be/en/monarchy/...eopold_II.html

A web site for the Belgian Royal Family. The first place that I would
look for a balanced view of Leopold and the Congo.

History would be a great science if it were true.

"Bobstamp" wrote in message
oups.com...
[ Bob mentions the book "Leopold's Ghost", which documents the
atrocities that King Leopold II's official's committed in his
private domain of the Congo. ]

--
= Eric Bustad, Norwegian Bachelor Programmer

Tony:

It reminds me of crossing the bridge to get to RCSD.
You save your low value penny box approvals to pay the troll.

8*)

Blair

The last address that I have for their PO is:

Departement des postes
(Office Nationale des Postes et Telegraphes de Zaire)
[probably now de Congo]

Boite postale 7948
Kinshasa 1
Democratic Republic of Congo

Blair

"Eric Kenneth Bustad" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Victor Manta wrote:
1890
In July, the Brussels International Conference condemned slavery and
triggered the start of the anti-slavery campaign in Africa, at the
instigation of the King.

History would be a great science if it were true.

This was treated in the book that Bob mentioned, which described it as
basically a successful attempt by the King to cover up his treatment of
the natives.

OK, we got a circular reference to the same book (Bob has already informed
us about its author's opinions). Now let's look a bit further.

About the importance of the Brussels Act:

"In later years the slave trade was conducted on the east coast of Africa,
the market being in Muslim lands. Most antislavery efforts during the 19th
cent. were directed against slave trading. Great Britain had passed
antislave-trade laws in 1807 and 1811; the British attempted to enlist other
nations in an effort to stop the slave trade, and several treaties for such
a purpose were signed in the 1840s. However, the first important
international agreement was not reached until the Berlin Conference in 1885,
which bound the more important Muslim potentates to act against the slave
traffic. This was supplemented by the even more significant Brussels Act of
1890, to which 18 states were signatory."

http://www.answers.com/topic/slavery

About Brussels Act consequences:

"Whereas the signatories of the General Act of the Brussels Conference of
1889-90 declared that
they were equally animated by the firm intention of putting an end to the
traffic in African slaves; "

Excerpt from the Slavery Convention (25 September 1926) and Protocol (7
December 1953)
http://www.historycentral.com/Histor...laveryI-V.html

Isn't it strange that a king that looks like an exploiter, racist and
criminal in that book, organized in Belgium an _international_ conference
against slavery, a conference that was then permanently cited in subsequent
great anti-slavery decisions???

Could we imagine that Stalin had organized an international conference
against the concentration camps or Hitler one against the racism?

--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob,

IMO, these stamps are illegals, as defined by the UPU Circulars. The fact
that they aren't listed by WNS is already a warning signal.

You can try to get more information from:

International Bureau of the UPU
WADP Secretariat
Directorate of Markets
Case postale 13
3000 BERNE 15
SWITZERLAND

Tel.: +41 31 350 31 22
or: +41 31 350 31 11
Fax: +41 31 351 02 66
E-mail:


Please let us know which was their opinion.


--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bobstamp" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've tried without success to find out whether some stamps I bought,
just to get one showing Jane Fonda, are legal issues. I kinda doubt it.


They were supposedly issued by Democratic Republic of the Congo in
2002. There are two six-stamp mini-panes showing "Sex Bombs du XX cine
Siecle". According to the UPU, Democratic Republic of the Congo is a
member, but there is no contact information, and I gather that it's
virtually impossible to communicate with them. Various web sites
indicate that some Democratic Republic of the Congo issues are
questionable.

I bought the stamps with eyes wide open (and the women are indeed "Sex
Bombs"!), knowing that they might be bogus; the Jane Fonda one will go
into my Vietnam War collection as a collateral item about war protests
and protestors. And, of course, the other stamps fit into my "Dirty Old
Man" collection! :-)

So, what do I have here? Legal or illegal stamps? Victor?

Bob

In article ,
Victor Manta wrote:
}"Eric Kenneth Bustad" wrote in message
...
} In article ,
} Victor Manta wrote:
} 1890
}In July, the Brussels International Conference condemned slavery and
}triggered the start of the anti-slavery campaign in Africa, at the
}instigation of the King.
}
}History would be a great science if it were true.
}
} This was treated in the book that Bob mentioned, which described it as
} basically a successful attempt by the King to cover up his treatment of
} the natives.
}
}OK, we got a circular reference to the same book (Bob has already informed
}us about its author's opinions). Now let's look a bit further.
}
}About the importance of the Brussels Act:
}
}"In later years the slave trade was conducted on the east coast of Africa,
}the market being in Muslim lands. Most antislavery efforts during the 19th
}cent. were directed against slave trading. Great Britain had passed
}antislave-trade laws in 1807 and 1811; the British attempted to enlist other
}nations in an effort to stop the slave trade, and several treaties for such
}a purpose were signed in the 1840s. However, the first important
}international agreement was not reached until the Berlin Conference in 1885,
}which bound the more important Muslim potentates to act against the slave
}traffic. This was supplemented by the even more significant Brussels Act of
}1890, to which 18 states were signatory."
}
}http://www.answers.com/topic/slavery
}
}About Brussels Act consequences:
}
}"Whereas the signatories of the General Act of the Brussels Conference of
}1889-90 declared that
}they were equally animated by the firm intention of putting an end to the
}traffic in African slaves; "
}
}Excerpt from the Slavery Convention (25 September 1926) and Protocol (7
}December 1953)
}http://www.historycentral.com/Histor...laveryI-V.html
}
}Isn't it strange that a king that looks like an exploiter, racist and
}criminal in that book, organized in Belgium an _international_ conference
}against slavery, a conference that was then permanently cited in subsequent
}great anti-slavery decisions???

The conference concentrated upon the slavery perpetrated by those awful
Arabs in East Africa. Conveniently ignoring what the King's men were
doing in the Congo.

}Could we imagine that Stalin had organized an international conference
}against the concentration camps or Hitler one against the racism?

Yes, I could imagine Stalin, anyway, doing that to direct outrage
against others. I don't know about the USSR, but Communist East
Germany certainly issued stamps commemorating the victims of the
concentration camps. While, I'm sure, using some of those same
concentration camps to hold it's own victims.

--
= Eric Bustad, Norwegian Bachelor Programmer

Victor :

Although I basically agree with you,
the UPU will probably just diplomatically
say that The Democratic Republic of
Congo does not participate in WNS.

A number of other UPU countries
also do not participate in WNS.
(eg Yemen, Libya, N Korea, Algeria,
Mongolia, Vatican (Holy See), etc...)

Blair




Blair

..