GM: Laughing stock

DeserTBoB wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 05:05:49 -0700, "455 Pontiac on premium Sunoco-chariot
of the gods" wrote:

WRONG- the Olds 455 was never installed in a Pontiac- ever. snip

No, you're wrong and won't fact facts. The 1976 Pontiac TransAm my
g/f had had a W31 455 OLDS in it...all of them did.

They used Pontiac 350-400-455 engines up to 1979, when the changeover
was made to the Olds 403 snip

Wrong, ****nose.


each division had its own unique engine- all big blocks- no parts
interchange except for external cap, rotor, spark plugs- Olds, Pontiac,
and Buick had 455's, Chevy a 454, and Cadillac a 472/500

Olds V-8 including their 455
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine


Pontiac V-8 including their 455
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine


Buick V-8 including their 455
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V...22Big-Block.22


Chevy V-8 including their 454
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrol...ock_engine#454


Cadillac 472/500
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V8_engine#500


of course you wouldn't know, you chose a Honda

DeserTBoB wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 05:05:49 -0700, "455 Pontiac on premium Sunoco-chariot
of the gods" wrote:

WRONG- the Olds 455 was never installed in a Pontiac- ever. snip

No, you're wrong and won't fact facts. The 1976 Pontiac TransAm my
g/f had had a W31 455 OLDS in it...all of them did.

They used Pontiac 350-400-455 engines up to 1979, when the changeover
was made to the Olds 403 snip

Wrong, ****nose.


Pontiac 455 V-8 history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine#455

455
For 1970, the 428 bore was expaned to a 4.152 inches, combined with a
4.21 inch stroke (105.5 mm by 106.9 mm), yielding a total displacement
of 455 in³ (7.5 L). The engine became available for the first time in
Pontiac Firebirds and the Pontiac GTO, as GM lifted its restrictions on
the use of big-block engines in mid-sized cars. The Pontiac V8 design
differs from other manufacturer's designs in that the external
dimensions of each engine, from 326 - 455 in³ displacement, is
identical. The displacement is determined internally with changes to
the bore and stroke; therefore, there is no "big block" Pontiac engine.
The 455 was used through 1976.

The 455, with its "undersquare" dimensions (long stroke relative to
bore), emphasized torque over hp, and was somewhat less powerful than
some high-performance iterations of the 400. For 1971 Pontiac
introduced a High Output, H.O., version with stronger internal parts
and improved cylinder head design for better breathing, making some 335
hp/224 kW (310 hp in the more accurate SAE net system), but this was an
extremely rare engine. In 1973, a further refined and even stronger
version, the Super Duty (SD) engine was introduced with "only" 310
hp/231 kW (SAE net) using a similar camshaft specifications to the Ram
Air IV 400 and similar round port cylinder heads with specific "LS2"
intake and cast iron exhaust header-manifolds. Still, it was the
strongest American engine offered that year. Its power was achieved
through bending of EPA emissions-testing procedures, which led
engineers to de-tune the engine to 290 hp (216 kW) via a camshaft
change for mid 1973 and 1974, after which point it was discontinued.

While an evolution of the RAIV and H.O. engine designs, the 455 SD was
a much improved engine. In addition to thicker casting of the block,
refined cylinder heads, reinforcements in the lifter galley and
improvements to the crankshaft and connecting rods, the SD was made
with a provision for dry sump oiling from the factory. This truly was a
racing engine, detuned for use in passenger cars.



and Olds 455 history- notice the Olds 455 never came in a Pontiac
vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine#455

455
A larger big-block was introduced for 1968 as the Rocket 455 at 455
in³ (7.5 L) to replace the 425s. It kept the 425's 4.126 in (104.8 mm)
bore and bumped the stroke to 4.25 in (107.9 mm). 1968-1969 455s were
painted red, while 1970-1976 versions were metallic blue. The "Rocket"
name disappeared from the air cleaner identification decal after 1974.
Although production of the 455 ended in 1976, a small number were
produced through 1978 for power equipment use. Output ranged from 210
to 400 hp (156 to 298 kW).

Applications:

Oldsmobile Cutlass
Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser
Oldsmobile 442
Oldsmobile Delta 88
Oldsmobile 98
1968-1970 Oldsmobile Toronado, 375 hp
1968-1970 Oldsmobile Toronado GT (W34), 400 hp



of course you wouldn't know- you don't have a minor in automotive
engineering- which is why you chose a Honda

DeserTBoB wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 05:05:49 -0700, "455 Pontiac on premium Sunoco-chariot
of the gods" wrote:

WRONG- the Olds 455 was never installed in a Pontiac- ever. snip

No, you're wrong and won't fact facts. The 1976 Pontiac TransAm my
g/f had had a W31 455 OLDS in it...all of them did.

They used Pontiac 350-400-455 engines up to 1979, when the changeover
was made to the Olds 403 snip

Wrong, ****nose.

well, look here, my cylinder heads are in Wikipedia...

it's great to drive an ultra-rare, valuable, and expensive automotive
legend- life is good !

yay, me !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac...gine#Ram_Air_V

Ram Air V
(303, 366, 400, 455) In 1969 Pontiac created several versions of their
"tunnel port" engine: a special short-deck version of the V8 for Trans
Am racing and a 400 standard deck version. The factory also
experimented with 366 and 455 in³ versions. The cylinder head was
patterned after the highly successful Ford 427 tunnel port head. So
large were the intake ports that the pushrods ran through the center of
the ports via pressed-in tubes.

303 - The revised engine had shorter connecting rods, smaller 2.5 in.
(63.5 mm) journals, special "tunnel port" heads, and a solid-lifter
version of the 400's Ram Air IV camshaft. It shared the 4.125 in (104.8
mm) bore of the 400, but with a 2.84 in (72.1 mm) stroke for a
displacement of 303 in³ (5.0 L). The short-deck engine weighed about
40 lb (18 kg) less than the 400, and had an 8000 rpm redline. The 303
program was promising, with race-ready engines producing 475-525 hp
(354.4-391.7 kW) and slated for advertised ratings of 355 hp in the
Pontiac Firebird and 375 hp for the Pontiac GTO. Concerns about
emissions, the response of the automobile safety lobby, and the
warranty implications of a high-revving street engine led to its
cancellation. About 80 were produced, and none were installed in
production cars.

On 14 Aug 2006 13:22:11 -0700, "Sunoco premium 93 octane-KING OF THE
ROAD" wrote:

read 'em and weep, Boob snip

Noodles is, of course, wrong, as usual.

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofeng.htm

A note about common engine displacement among divisions:
While it may be hard to believe in today's era of corporate engines,
each GM division, at least through the mid-70s, unlike Ford and
Chrysler, had their own unique engine designs. Despite common
displacements, all used different bore and stroke combinations with
completely different blocks and heads (and everything else). This
applies back to the 30's and farther. In the 60's, 70's, and 80's, many
divisions and makes built common displacement engines, say 350, 400,
425, and 455. snip
Idiot...you don't know anything, do you? Back in the early '70s, when
GM was figuring ways to further chissle customers, they decided that
the overhead of having engine plants for each division was an
unnecessary cost, and that they'd start "corporatizing" their engines,
with the goal to eliminate the more costly-to-produce lines (Buick,
Olds, Pontiac) in favor of the cheapest one to produce of them all,
the crummy small block Chevrolet. The first year of this policy was
1975, as I remember very well. It was the introductory year of the
ill-fated Olds Omega, basically a rebadged Chevy Nova with upgraded
interior and...supposedly...an Olds drivetrain. Well, some Omegas DID
get shipped with Olds 350s...but others got CHEVY 350s. Ditto over at
Buick, who introduced a parallel Buick Apollo...some got Buick
engines, some got...CHEVIES.

A gentleman somewhere (I don't have the case file in front of me now,
but it's all over the 'net) went to his Olds dealer in late '74,
thinking he could finally get a GM compact car (as they were then)
without the crappy Chevy engine and transmission. He takes delivery
of the car, gets it home, opens the hood and...SURPRISE! A ****ty
Chevy 350 and ****tier Chevy THM-350 transmission! Livid, the man
calls the dealer to complain, and the dealer just tells him, "That's
the way it is now." The buyer then gets legal counsel and sued GM for
fraud...and WON. GM had to take back his car, give him a NEW Omega
WITH an Olds engine and Detroit Transmission (Turbo HydraMatic 375)
transmission. It's all documented...****wit.

Meanwhile, I was dating this nice nurse who drove a 1976 TransAm.
Typically the bulbous, space-wasted GM pony car of 1971-1978, I never
liked that car. On the hood was the usual oversized "bird" decal,
along with an intake scoop and the "455 HO" decals. Pop the hood? An
OLDS 455...the W31...IDENTICAL to the engine used in early '70s Olds
98s and optional on the 88.

By this time, the Pontiac 455 wasn't very available, and almost all
California cars were shipped with the Olds 455 for the "HO" package.
Seen it, Noodles...not only that, her father owned a garage in that
town, and he said he'd never SEEN a real Pontiac 455 in ANY after-1975
Fireturd. So much for YOUR knowledge...idiot. Buicks were also
getting Chevy V8s, as were Olds Cutlasses. Another girlfirend's
mother had a 1978 Olds Cutless that was sucking oil, unusal for any
Olds. I open the hood....SURPRISE! It's a ****ty small block Chevy,
with the usual bad valve guide/lousy oil seal problem! Back to the
Pontiacs, you could get a "real Poncho" 400 HO...but you coudln't get
a real 455 HO...not in California. The Olds engine "cleaned up"
better to pass emissions. I originally thought this was a
California-only thing, but it wasn't. LOTS of 1976 Fireturd 455s in
ALL 50 STATES have Olds 455s. Oh, and Noodles? The 4-4-2 base
engines was an Olds 400.

Charlie Nudo exposes himself yet again as a net poser and wannabe
mechanic. AAS degree in auto repair...LMAO! My dog could get one of
those and probably skip a semester!

On 14 Aug 2006 13:31:23 -0700, "Sunoco premium 93 octane-KING OF THE
ROAD" wrote:

each division had its own unique engine- all big blocks- no parts
interchange except for external cap, rotor, spark plugs- Olds, Pontiac,
and Buick had 455's, Chevy a 454, and Cadillac a 472/500 snip

Cadillac was the ONLY division not to get intot he engine swap fraud
game in 1975...PERIOD. Cadillac kepts their own engines until, due to
desire to further chop costs, they started using ****box Chevies in
their RWD Fleetwoods in the late '80s.

Olds V-8 including their 455
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine snip

No one relies on "wikipedia" for useful information. Its entries are
contibuted by idiots like you, Noodles.

of course you wouldn't know, you chose a Honda snip

By the mid '70s, GM cars were SO bad, LOTS of people were buying
Japanese, just to get a car that ran well and saved gas.

On 14 Aug 2006 13:35:37 -0700, "Sunoco premium 93 octane-KING OF THE
ROAD" wrote:

The 455 was used through 1976. snip

Early '76s...the switch to Olds 455s occurred in the middle of the '76
production year, but you wouldn't know that, because you're ignorant.

Its power was achieved
through bending of EPA emissions-testing procedures, which led
engineers to de-tune the engine to 290 hp (216 kW) via a camshaft
change for mid 1973 and 1974, after which point it was discontinued. snip

....and after which, Pontiac had to go to Olds to "borrow" engines to
meet EPA requirements.

and Olds 455 history- notice the Olds 455 never came in a Pontiac
vehicle snip

WRONG! '76 455 HO Fireturd = OLDS 455.

On 14 Aug 2006 14:00:47 -0700, "Sunoco premium 93 octane-KING OF THE
ROAD" wrote:

Ram Air V
(303 snip

Pontiac never had a "production 303". Enough 303s were built just to
satisfy CanAm requirements, similar to the Chevy 302...which are rarer
than frog's teeth. The Pontiac never got off the ground, because big
horsepower engines were already becoming a thing of the past..

366,snip

Pontiac never had a 366. That was a post-1972 Chevy big block truck
engine, a destroked 396

303 - The revised engine had shorter connecting rods, smaller 2.5 in.
(63.5 mm) journals, special "tunnel port" heads, and a solid-lifter
version of the 400's Ram Air IV camshaft. It shared the 4.125 in (104.8
mm) bore of the 400, but with a 2.84 in (72.1 mm) stroke for a
displacement of 303 in³ (5.0 L). The short-deck engine weighed about
40 lb (18 kg) less than the 400, and had an 8000 rpm redline. The 303
program was promising, with race-ready engines producing 475-525 hp
(354.4-391.7 kW) and slated for advertised ratings of 355 hp in the
Pontiac Firebird and 375 hp for the Pontiac GTO. Concerns about
emissions, the response of the automobile safety lobby, and the
warranty implications of a high-revving street engine led to its
cancellation. About 80 were produced, and none were installed in
production cars. snip

See? I'm right...again.

DeserTBoB wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 14:00:47 -0700, "Sunoco premium 93 octane-KING OF THE
ROAD" wrote:

Ram Air V
(303 snip

Pontiac never had a "production 303". Enough 303s were built just to
satisfy CanAm requirements, similar to the Chevy 302...which are rarer
than frog's teeth. The Pontiac never got off the ground, because big
horsepower engines were already becoming a thing of the past..

366,snip

Pontiac never had a 366. That was a post-1972 Chevy big block truck
engine, a destroked 396

303 - The revised engine had shorter connecting rods, smaller 2.5 in.
(63.5 mm) journals, special "tunnel port" heads, and a solid-lifter
version of the 400's Ram Air IV camshaft. It shared the 4.125 in (104.8
mm) bore of the 400, but with a 2.84 in (72.1 mm) stroke for a
displacement of 303 in³ (5.0 L). The short-deck engine weighed about
40 lb (18 kg) less than the 400, and had an 8000 rpm redline. The 303
program was promising, with race-ready engines producing 475-525 hp
(354.4-391.7 kW) and slated for advertised ratings of 355 hp in the
Pontiac Firebird and 375 hp for the Pontiac GTO. Concerns about
emissions, the response of the automobile safety lobby, and the
warranty implications of a high-revving street engine led to its
cancellation. About 80 were produced, and none were installed in
production cars. snip

See? I'm right...again.


no, you're WRONG AGAIN- Pontiac destroked the 400 to 366 for NASCAR
racing in 1972, I have a complete crank, rods, and pistons for one.
very rare and expensive. I picked up that rotator from the same guy I
got my RA V heads from.

ditto, you'd never know about them- they made 303 for Trans Am road
racing, and 366 for NASCAR- Grand National stock car CID limit at the
time was 366

http://www.answers.com/topic/pontiac-v8-engine

Ram Air V
(303, 366, 400, 455)

In 1969 Pontiac created several versions of their "tunnel port" engine:
a special short-deck version of the V8 for Trans Am racing and a 400
standard deck version. The factory also experimented with 366 and 455
in³ versions. The cylinder head was patterned after the highly
successful Ford 427 tunnel port head. So large were the intake ports
that the pushrods ran through the center of the ports via pressed-in
tubes.

303 - The revised engine had shorter connecting rods, smaller 2.5 in.
(63.5 mm) journals, special "tunnel port" heads, and a solid-lifter
version of the 400's Ram Air IV camshaft. It shared the 4.125 in (104.8
mm) bore of the 400, but with a 2.84 in (72.1 mm) stroke for a
displacement of 303 cu. in. (5.0 L). The short-deck engine weighed
about 40 lb (18 kg) less than the 400, and had an 8000-rpm redline. The
303 program was promising, with race-ready engines producing 475-525 hp
(354.4-391.7 kW) and slated for advertised ratings of 355 hp in the
Pontiac Firebird and 375 hp for the Pontiac GTO. Concerns about
emissions, the response of the automobile safety lobby, and the
warranty implications of a high-revving street engine led to its
cancellation. About 80 were produced, and none were installed in
production cars.

DeserTBoB wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 13:22:11 -0700, "Sunoco premium 93 octane-KING OF THE
ROAD" wrote:

read 'em and weep, Boob snip

Noodles is, of course, wrong, as usual.

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofeng.htm

A note about common engine displacement among divisions:
While it may be hard to believe in today's era of corporate engines,
each GM division, at least through the mid-70s, unlike Ford and
Chrysler, had their own unique engine designs. Despite common
displacements, all used different bore and stroke combinations with
completely different blocks and heads (and everything else). This
applies back to the 30's and farther. In the 60's, 70's, and 80's, many
divisions and makes built common displacement engines, say 350, 400,
425, and 455. snip
Idiot...you don't know anything, do you? Back in the early '70s, when
GM was figuring ways to further chissle customers, they decided that
the overhead of having engine plants for each division was an
unnecessary cost, and that they'd start "corporatizing" their engines,
with the goal to eliminate the more costly-to-produce lines (Buick,
Olds, Pontiac) in favor of the cheapest one to produce of them all,
the crummy small block Chevrolet. The first year of this policy was
1975, as I remember very well. It was the introductory year of the
ill-fated Olds Omega, basically a rebadged Chevy Nova with upgraded
interior and...supposedly...an Olds drivetrain. Well, some Omegas DID
get shipped with Olds 350s...but others got CHEVY 350s. Ditto over at
Buick, who introduced a parallel Buick Apollo...some got Buick
engines, some got...CHEVIES.

A gentleman somewhere (I don't have the case file in front of me now,
but it's all over the 'net) went to his Olds dealer in late '74,
thinking he could finally get a GM compact car (as they were then)
without the crappy Chevy engine and transmission. He takes delivery
of the car, gets it home, opens the hood and...SURPRISE! A ****ty
Chevy 350 and ****tier Chevy THM-350 transmission! Livid, the man
calls the dealer to complain, and the dealer just tells him, "That's
the way it is now." The buyer then gets legal counsel and sued GM for
fraud...and WON. GM had to take back his car, give him a NEW Omega
WITH an Olds engine and Detroit Transmission (Turbo HydraMatic 375)
transmission. It's all documented...****wit.

Meanwhile, I was dating this nice nurse who drove a 1976 TransAm.
Typically the bulbous, space-wasted GM pony car of 1971-1978, I never
liked that car. On the hood was the usual oversized "bird" decal,
along with an intake scoop and the "455 HO" decals. Pop the hood? An
OLDS 455...the W31...IDENTICAL to the engine used in early '70s Olds
98s and optional on the 88.

By this time, the Pontiac 455 wasn't very available, and almost all
California cars were shipped with the Olds 455 for the "HO" package.
Seen it, Noodles...not only that, her father owned a garage in that
town, and he said he'd never SEEN a real Pontiac 455 in ANY after-1975
Fireturd. So much for YOUR knowledge...idiot. Buicks were also
getting Chevy V8s, as were Olds Cutlasses. Another girlfirend's
mother had a 1978 Olds Cutless that was sucking oil, unusal for any
Olds. I open the hood....SURPRISE! It's a ****ty small block Chevy,
with the usual bad valve guide/lousy oil seal problem! Back to the
Pontiacs, you could get a "real Poncho" 400 HO...but you coudln't get
a real 455 HO...not in California. The Olds engine "cleaned up"
better to pass emissions. I originally thought this was a
California-only thing, but it wasn't. LOTS of 1976 Fireturd 455s in
ALL 50 STATES have Olds 455s. Oh, and Noodles? The 4-4-2 base
engines was an Olds 400.

Charlie Nudo exposes himself yet again as a net poser and wannabe
mechanic. AAS degree in auto repair...LMAO! My dog could get one of
those and probably skip a semester!


You don't know the diff between a Pontiac and Olds 455 though...

DeserTBoB wrote:

Pontiac never had a 366. That was a post-1972 Chevy big block truck
engine, a destroked 396

See? I'm right...again.


WRONG- look at the casting numbers yourself

1972- 366

http://userweb.suscom.net/~jasonroge...ingnumbers.htm