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Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 26th 10, 04:21 PM
Andy Bilton Andy Bilton is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Default Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic

Hi all,

First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!

I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. Comes up with error messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget' that I fixed the problems. Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I have it programmes for freeplay.

I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong with the memory on the machine. I can find no battery so I'm figuring this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).

Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?

Many thanks

Andy
Ads
  #2  
Old December 27th 10, 06:26 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
kreed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 376
Default Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic

On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:
Hi all,

First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!

I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error
messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is
when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget'
that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I
have it programmes for freeplay.

I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong
with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring
this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I
can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).

Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer
Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?

Many thanks

Andy

--
Andy Bilton


Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for
this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use.


If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e
squared" memory. These would typically be an 8 pin IC. These are
FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. They do wear out after
about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail.
These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I
have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road
died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and
we believe this is what nuked the chip)

Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely
likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to)
every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting
is changed. If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on"
function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every
time the machine is turned on. It is also possible that multiple
data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if
they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data.


The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip.
These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had
battery and ram enclosed inside this block. If faulty you will likely
need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have
"Dallas semiconductor" written on them.

You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace
the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but
there is a risk of rendering it unusable.
  #3  
Old December 27th 10, 03:49 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic

On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:26:37 -0800 (PST), kreed
wrote:

On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:
Hi all,

First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!

I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error
messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is
when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget'
that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I
have it programmes for freeplay.

I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong
with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring
this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I
can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).

Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer
Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?

Many thanks

Andy

--
Andy Bilton


Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for
this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use.


If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e
squared" memory. These would typically be an 8 pin IC. These are
FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. They do wear out after
about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail.
These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I
have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road
died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and
we believe this is what nuked the chip)

Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely
likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to)
every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting
is changed. If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on"
function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every
time the machine is turned on. It is also possible that multiple
data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if
they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data.


The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip.
These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had
battery and ram enclosed inside this block. If faulty you will likely
need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have
"Dallas semiconductor" written on them.

You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace
the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but
there is a risk of rendering it unusable.



The Performer series have a NVRAM chip with integral battery. It
sounds like this battery has come to the end of its life. This is
more and more common for these jukes at the age they are. It needs to
be replaced (note you will have to reprogram when you put the new one
in). It is located on the Centrale board (front of stack on back wall
of juke). I don't remember the location number, but is should be
obvious as it is a "thicker" chip than all the others.

Happ Controls have these(look under jukeboxes/parts/NSM, etc.), as
will any other distributor that handles NSM parts. I believe it is
the same chip for ES IV and ES V series (Classics are ES V if I
recall). ES IV have white player boxes and ES V have black player
boxes.

I am not aware that anyone has successfuly replaced a battery in these
chips, but somebody may have. The new replacement costs about $60 to
$70.

On location, these jukes can be left on 24/7, until a new NVRAM chip
can be installed, but this may not be a viable option in home use.

Irwin
  #4  
Old December 27th 10, 08:20 PM
Andy Bilton Andy Bilton is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreed View Post
On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:
Hi all,

First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!

I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error
messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is
when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget'
that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I
have it programmes for freeplay.

I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong
with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring
this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I
can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).

Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer
Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?

Many thanks

Andy

--
Andy Bilton


Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for
this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use.


If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e
squared" memory. These would typically be an 8 pin IC. These are
FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. They do wear out after
about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail.
These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I
have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road
died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and
we believe this is what nuked the chip)

Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely
likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to)
every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting
is changed. If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on"
function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every
time the machine is turned on. It is also possible that multiple
data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if
they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data.


The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip.
These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had
battery and ram enclosed inside this block. If faulty you will likely
need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have
"Dallas semiconductor" written on them.

You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace
the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but
there is a risk of rendering it unusable.
Thanks for your post Kreed. I had another look at the manual and it says that the temporary memory is stored in 'battery bufered RAM'. This would appear to be a chip noted as IC 5 which has 20 pins. I had a real good luck on the board that this chip is set in and can find nothing that looks anything like a battery. I even took the chip out but there was nothing resembling a battery underneath. Whilst out I noticed the chip has the following numbers underneath 48T18A9 and H228236. From my limited knowledge gained from tinkering with pinball machines I suspect this to be one of these 'flash' RAM chips as it has a label stuck over the top of it to cover up the 'flashable' spots.

Can anyone shed any further light on my conundrum please?

Cheers

Andy
  #5  
Old December 27th 10, 11:10 PM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
stbann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic


The NSM Performer Classic is an ES-V series machine with the battery-
backed memory chip at IC5. Unlike the ES-IV series, this chip also
contains the timekeeper clock circuit as well. The replacement is made
by ST Microelectronics as part number M48T18-100PC1

~Ann Marie
http://www.cdadapter.com/

  #6  
Old December 28th 10, 04:20 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
kreed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 376
Default Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic

On Dec 28, 12:49*am, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 21:26:37 -0800 (PST), kreed



wrote:
On Dec 27, 1:21 am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:
Hi all,


First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!


I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. Comes up with error
messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem is
when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to 'forget'
that I fixed the problems. Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that I
have it programmes for freeplay.


I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong
with the memory on the machine. I can find no battery so I'm figuring
this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I
can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).


Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM Performer
Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?


Many thanks


Andy


--
Andy Bilton


Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for
this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use.


If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e
squared" memory. *These would typically be an 8 pin IC. *These are
FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. * They do wear out after
about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail.
These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I
have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road
died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and
we believe this is what nuked the chip)


Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely
likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to)
every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting
is changed. *If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on"
function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every
time the machine is turned on. * It is also possible that multiple
data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if
they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data.


The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip.
These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had
battery and ram enclosed inside this block. *If faulty you will likely
need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have
"Dallas semiconductor" written on them.


You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace
the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but
there is a risk of rendering it unusable.


The Performer series have a NVRAM chip with integral battery. *It
sounds like this battery has come to the end of its life. *This is
more and more common for these jukes at the age they are. *It needs to
be replaced (note you will have to reprogram when you put the new one
in). *It is located on the Centrale board (front of stack on back wall
of juke). *I don't remember the location number, but is should be
obvious as it is a "thicker" chip than all the others.

Happ Controls have these(look under jukeboxes/parts/NSM, etc.), as
will any other distributor that handles NSM parts. *I believe it is
the same chip for ES IV and ES V series (Classics are ES V if I
recall). *ES IV have white player boxes and ES V have black player
boxes.

I am not aware that anyone has successfuly replaced a battery in these
chips, but somebody may have. *The new replacement costs about $60 to
$70.



Looked up my notes, On the Dallas 6116 replacements, (can't remember
the number) the battery is in the top (not the side with the pins),
The top can be carefully cut away, and the battery replaced. It is a
small lithium coin cell. Try to cut around the edges, not through the
centre as you may cut the battery open, which may make it short
internally and heat up, and/or leak.
Dremel type tool with a suitable cutting wheel is used. Wear eye
protection in case you hit the battery and metal shavings come out, or
acid. Taking it out of the board is advised, or at very least cover
the rest of the board and its parts with something to protect them
from the cuttings and anything else.

The IC itself is underneath, where the pins are, so it wont be damaged
by cutting around the top part

If they want that much for the replacement, then its definitely worth
trying. You can then replace it again in another 10-15 years or so
when it fails again if you are still involved in this sort of thing
then



On location, these jukes can be left on 24/7, until a new NVRAM chip
can be installed, but this may not be a viable option in home use.

Irwin


  #7  
Old December 28th 10, 04:34 AM posted to alt.collecting.juke-boxes
kreed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 376
Default Memory Loss NSM Performer Classic

On Dec 28, 5:20*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:
kreed;666813 Wrote:



On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:-
Hi all,


First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!


I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error
messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem
is
when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to
'forget'
that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that
I
have it programmes for freeplay.


I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong
with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring
this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I
can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).


Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM
Performer
Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?


Many thanks


Andy


--
Andy Bilton-


Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for
this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use.


If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e
squared" memory. *These would typically be an 8 pin IC. *These are
FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. * They do wear out after
about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail.
These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I
have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road
died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and
we believe this is what nuked the chip)


Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely
likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to)
every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting
is changed. *If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on"
function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every
time the machine is turned on. * It is also possible that multiple
data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if
they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data.


The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip.
These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had
battery and ram enclosed inside this block. *If faulty you will likely
need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have
"Dallas semiconductor" written on them.


You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace
the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but
there is a risk of rendering it unusable.


Thanks for your post Kreed. *I had another look at the manual and it
says that the temporary memory is stored in 'battery bufered RAM'. *This
would appear to be a chip noted as IC 5 which has 20 pins. *I had a real
good luck on the board that this chip is set in and can find nothing
that looks anything like a battery. *I even took the chip out but there
was nothing resembling a battery underneath. *Whilst out I noticed the
chip has the following numbers underneath 48T18A9 and H228236. *From my
limited knowledge gained from tinkering with pinball machines I suspect
this to be one of these 'flash' RAM chips as it has a label stuck over
the top of it to cover up the 'flashable' spots.

They are not FLASH ram, these are Eprom. They can only be erased with
UV light exposure
then re-programmed. There is a pin taken to +12 / 24V (depending on
the type) during this programming. (called burning).

FLASH is similar to what is now used in digital camera cards etc. You
write something electrically into it and it stays there
indefinitely without any power. AN EPROM does the same thing, but you
need the 20 min of UV to erase it.
It doesn't need special voltages to do this.

Both can be electrically rewritten a certain number of times, fairly
quickly and can have unlimited reads.

Normal RAM can be read/written to indefinitely and is very fast. It
will lose this content though without power. CMOS (low power) RAM
has been used for a long time in Pinballs, Games, Jukeboxes etc for
holding data, as well as sometimes also being used as general purpose
RAM for the CPU during its operations. (IE - All ROWE Laserstar CCC
Boards).

The battery is used to keep power to this RAM while the mains is
turned off so the content is not lost.



Can anyone shed any further light on my conundrum please?

Cheers

Andy

--
Andy Bilton


  #8  
Old January 8th 11, 12:09 PM
Andy Bilton Andy Bilton is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by CollectingBanter: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreed View Post
On Dec 28, 5:20*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:
kreed;666813 Wrote:



On Dec 27, 1:21*am, Andy Bilton Andy.Bilton.
wrote:-
Hi all,


First off Merry Christmas 2010 to all on the forum!


I have a problem with my NSM Peformer Classic. *Comes up with error
messsages on switch on so I program it to fix the error only problem
is
when machine is switched off and back on again machine seems to
'forget'
that I fixed the problems. *Also machine can't seem to 'remember' that
I
have it programmes for freeplay.


I've done nothing drastic to it so I'm figuring that something's wrong
with the memory on the machine. *I can find no battery so I'm figuring
this type of jukebox does not have a battery backed up memory but I
can't find anything about memory in the manual (which I have).


Does anyone have any ideas what kind of memory system the NSM
Performer
Classic uses and how I can resolve issues with it please?


Many thanks


Andy


--
Andy Bilton-


Typically a 5101 or a 6116 / 6264 Ram are used in games / jukes for
this purpose, but I don't know what NSM use.


If there is no battery or chip as listed above - it could have an "e
squared" memory. *These would typically be an 8 pin IC. *These are
FLASH type memory, and dont need a battery. * They do wear out after
about 10,000 writes (especially older ones) though and start to fail.
These were also used on "off road" and "Lethal Enforcers" games and I
have replaced this IC on both these games due to failure. (off road
died as in one location they were forever setting new high scores and
we believe this is what nuked the chip)


Considering that if it holds coin and popularity data - its extremely
likely that these RAM locations would be incremented (written to)
every time a coin is inserted, or a selection is played, or a setting
is changed. *If there is an "hours on" or "number of times turned on"
function - then these would be written in addition every hour or every
time the machine is turned on. * It is also possible that multiple
data locations are changed with each operation (several writes) if
they have a checksum or other method of detecting corrupt data.


The other alternative that was popular was a "Dallas" chip.
These were a rectangular block that sits higher than a ROM and had
battery and ram enclosed inside this block. *If faulty you will likely
need a new one as the battery is sealed inside. They should have
"Dallas semiconductor" written on them.


You may be able to cut the top of the thing open and find and replace
the battery - (from memory its in the upper part of the chip) but
there is a risk of rendering it unusable.


Thanks for your post Kreed. *I had another look at the manual and it
says that the temporary memory is stored in 'battery bufered RAM'. *This
would appear to be a chip noted as IC 5 which has 20 pins. *I had a real
good luck on the board that this chip is set in and can find nothing
that looks anything like a battery. *I even took the chip out but there
was nothing resembling a battery underneath. *Whilst out I noticed the
chip has the following numbers underneath 48T18A9 and H228236. *From my
limited knowledge gained from tinkering with pinball machines I suspect
this to be one of these 'flash' RAM chips as it has a label stuck over
the top of it to cover up the 'flashable' spots.

They are not FLASH ram, these are Eprom. They can only be erased with
UV light exposure
then re-programmed. There is a pin taken to +12 / 24V (depending on
the type) during this programming. (called burning).

FLASH is similar to what is now used in digital camera cards etc. You
write something electrically into it and it stays there
indefinitely without any power. AN EPROM does the same thing, but you
need the 20 min of UV to erase it.
It doesn't need special voltages to do this.

Both can be electrically rewritten a certain number of times, fairly
quickly and can have unlimited reads.

Normal RAM can be read/written to indefinitely and is very fast. It
will lose this content though without power. CMOS (low power) RAM
has been used for a long time in Pinballs, Games, Jukeboxes etc for
holding data, as well as sometimes also being used as general purpose
RAM for the CPU during its operations. (IE - All ROWE Laserstar CCC
Boards).

The battery is used to keep power to this RAM while the mains is
turned off so the content is not lost.



Can anyone shed any further light on my conundrum please?

Cheers

Andy

--
Andy Bilton
Thanks for all the posts which have been most helpful. I have managed to find a company in the UK that sells these chips pre-programmed for my Juke for around $45. This seems pretty reasonable so I think I'll go this route. Many thanks once again. Andy
 




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