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RCC Tokens



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 21st 10, 06:43 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
nohope587
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default RCC Tokens

Its been 2354 days since my last post here. I do not see many of the
old names, but I guess things change.
Anyway I found a bunch of RCC tokens in my desk draw the other day.
From 2002 through 2004
I can find very little info on the net about their popularity. Are
these still collected by RCC members? if so what are the going rates
for them.
Thank you for your time.
nohope587
Ads
  #3  
Old May 22nd 10, 12:58 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
nohope587[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default RCC Tokens

Your reply would indicate otherwise.
I am patient they have been sitting in a draw for a fair few years
another decade will not harm them. Though if this group will even be
around then who knows.
Richard

Eric Babula wrote:
nohope587 wrote in
news:af76c995-d7d1-485d-a800-
:

Its been 2354 days since my last post here. I do not see many of
the old names, but I guess things change.
Anyway I found a bunch of RCC tokens in my desk draw the other
day. From 2002 through 2004
I can find very little info on the net about their popularity. Are
these still collected by RCC members? if so what are the going
rates for them.
Thank you for your time.
nohope587


They are not popular and are not worth anything. Send them all to
me, and I'll "dispose" of them for you.

Eric Babula

  #4  
Old May 22nd 10, 01:51 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 357
Default RCC Tokens

On 5/21/2010 7:37 PM, Eric Babula wrote:
Anyway I found a bunch of RCC tokens in my desk draw the other
day. From 2002 through 2004
I can find very little info on the net about their popularity. Are


I don't think these have much market value, and you don't see them for
sale at all on eBay, or hardly at all. I followed only the first such
token. The process of choosing it was fairly schizoid. I have one of
these as a curiosity, and here's what I have at my site about it (long):

RCC 2002 bronze token (32.1g, 40mm).

This odd-looking token, consisting of bronze with an antique brass
finish, was made for rec.collecting.coins (RCC), a Usenet discussion
group about coins, with this being the group's first such token. It was
made by Quality Challenge Coins, which produced 121 pieces of this type,
and the project was spearheaded by George V. Huse Jr., a participant in
the discussion group. The circumstances behind the minting of this
token, which I witnessed firsthand, present an interesting example of
the issue of Internet misinformation.

Unlike the vast majority of other medals and tokens inspired by ancient
Athenian Owl coins, this piece isn't based on the famous Classical Owls
of the fifth century BC but the less important New Style Owls of the
second and first centuries BC. However, as opposed to the actual ancient
coins, Athena is facing left on this token rather than right because
Huse was led to believe that if this copy had been made with a
right-facing Athena it might be regarded as a forgery or might be
modified and sold as an authentic ancient coin. This is despite the fact
that this token is considerably larger and heavier than ancient coins of
this type, that it's made of a copper alloy whereas the ancient
tetradrachms were made of silver (ancient bronzes of this type exist but
they're even smaller and are seen far less), that it was manufactured
with a modern press and has a perfectly round shape, flat fields, and
uniform rims and other design elements as opposed to the irregularity of
ancient hand-struck coins, and that it features modern Latin lettering
and Arabic numbering, which no ancient Greek coins had because such
lettering and numbering hadn't yet come into existence.

What's more, the model used for this token wasn't a genuine New Style
Owl because some RCC participants convinced Huse that using a photo from
a coin book for design guidance could result in a copyright violation.
For some reason no genuine specimens of this common coin type were
available for a scan or photo and no attempt was made to ask for the use
of anyone's existing photo. So instead a Slavey replica of a New Style
Owl tetradrachm was purchased and a scan of it was made and sent to the
minter even though Slavey replicas have a reputation at least among
those who know ancient coins for their flamboyant exaggeration.

Unlike with genuine New Style Owls, which feature Athena with a pleasant
smile or neutral expression, Athena on this piece has an unpleasant
scowl. Another anomaly is the obverse legend "Pallas Athene," which
never appeared on ancient coins of this type and which misdescribes the
Athena that's illustrated. Pallas is one of the many epithets sometimes
used as part of Athena's name, in this case signifying an opponent she
killed in battle whose name she took. But the epithet used with Athena
on New Style Owls in coin books and coin catalogs is Parthenos, not
Pallas, as in Athena Parthenos, since the image used on these coins is
thought to have been based on the sculpture of Athena by Phidias that
stood in the Parthenon. What's more, Athena is much more commonly
spelled with an "a" at the end, "Athena" instead of "Athene," in books
on numismatics as well as mythology, not to mention being better known
this way in the popular culture. Two further anomalies are an owl that's
smaller than on authentic New Style Owls and a wreath around the coin's
edge that's larger, with the wreath taking up far more space even though
the owl by far is the more important design element.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos
  #5  
Old May 22nd 10, 02:33 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
gogu[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default RCC Tokens

? "Reid Goldsborough" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On 5/21/2010 7:37 PM, Eric Babula wrote:
Anyway I found a bunch of RCC tokens in my desk draw the other
day. From 2002 through 2004
I can find very little info on the net about their popularity. Are



I don't think these have much market value, and you don't see them for
sale at all on eBay, or hardly at all. I followed only the first such
token.


I'd buy one if offerd at a decent price (that's no more than $25.00)...

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html



The process of choosing it was fairly schizoid. I have one of these as a
curiosity, and here's what I have at my site about it (long):

RCC 2002 bronze token (32.1g, 40mm).

This odd-looking token, consisting of bronze with an antique brass finish,
was made for rec.collecting.coins (RCC), a Usenet discussion group about
coins, with this being the group's first such token. It was made by
Quality Challenge Coins, which produced 121 pieces of this type, and the
project was spearheaded by George V. Huse Jr., a participant in the
discussion group. The circumstances behind the minting of this token,
which I witnessed firsthand, present an interesting example of the issue
of Internet misinformation.

Unlike the vast majority of other medals and tokens inspired by ancient
Athenian Owl coins, this piece isn't based on the famous Classical Owls of
the fifth century BC but the less important New Style Owls of the second
and first centuries BC. However, as opposed to the actual ancient coins,
Athena is facing left on this token rather than right because Huse was led
to believe that if this copy had been made with a right-facing Athena it
might be regarded as a forgery or might be modified and sold as an
authentic ancient coin. This is despite the fact that this token is
considerably larger and heavier than ancient coins of this type, that it's
made of a copper alloy whereas the ancient tetradrachms were made of
silver (ancient bronzes of this type exist but they're even smaller and
are seen far less), that it was manufactured with a modern press and has a
perfectly round shape, flat fields, and uniform rims and other design
elements as opposed to the irregularity of ancient hand-struck coins, and
that it features modern Latin lettering and Arabic numbering, which no
ancient Greek coins had because such lettering and numbering hadn't yet
come into existence.

What's more, the model used for this token wasn't a genuine New Style Owl
because some RCC participants convinced Huse that using a photo from a
coin book for design guidance could result in a copyright violation. For
some reason no genuine specimens of this common coin type were available
for a scan or photo and no attempt was made to ask for the use of anyone's
existing photo. So instead a Slavey replica of a New Style Owl tetradrachm
was purchased and a scan of it was made and sent to the minter even though
Slavey replicas have a reputation at least among those who know ancient
coins for their flamboyant exaggeration.

Unlike with genuine New Style Owls, which feature Athena with a pleasant
smile or neutral expression, Athena on this piece has an unpleasant scowl.
Another anomaly is the obverse legend "Pallas Athene," which never
appeared on ancient coins of this type and which misdescribes the Athena
that's illustrated. Pallas is one of the many epithets sometimes used as
part of Athena's name, in this case signifying an opponent she killed in
battle whose name she took. But the epithet used with Athena on New Style
Owls in coin books and coin catalogs is Parthenos, not Pallas, as in
Athena Parthenos, since the image used on these coins is thought to have
been based on the sculpture of Athena by Phidias that stood in the
Parthenon. What's more, Athena is much more commonly spelled with an "a"
at the end, "Athena" instead of "Athene," in books on numismatics as well
as mythology, not to mention being better known this way in the popular
culture. Two further anomalies are an owl that's smaller than on authentic
New Style Owls and a wreath around the coin's edge that's larger, with the
wreath taking up far more space even though the owl by far is the more
important design element.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos



  #6  
Old May 22nd 10, 03:47 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default RCC Tokens


"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
On 5/21/2010 7:37 PM, Eric Babula wrote:
Anyway I found a bunch of RCC tokens in my desk draw the other
day. From 2002 through 2004
I can find very little info on the net about their popularity. Are


I don't think these have much market value, and you don't see them for
sale at all on eBay, or hardly at all. I followed only the first such
token. The process of choosing it was fairly schizoid. I have one of these
as a curiosity, and here's what I have at my site about it (long):

RCC 2002 bronze token (32.1g, 40mm).

This odd-looking token, consisting of bronze with an antique brass finish,
was made for rec.collecting.coins (RCC), a Usenet discussion group about
coins, with this being the group's first such token. It was made by
Quality Challenge Coins, which produced 121 pieces of this type, and the
project was spearheaded by George V. Huse Jr., a participant in the
discussion group. The circumstances behind the minting of this token,
which I witnessed firsthand, present an interesting example of the issue
of Internet misinformation.

Unlike the vast majority of other medals and tokens inspired by ancient
Athenian Owl coins, this piece isn't based on the famous Classical Owls of
the fifth century BC but the less important New Style Owls of the second
and first centuries BC. However, as opposed to the actual ancient coins,
Athena is facing left on this token rather than right because Huse was led
to believe that if this copy had been made with a right-facing Athena it
might be regarded as a forgery or might be modified and sold as an
authentic ancient coin. This is despite the fact that this token is
considerably larger and heavier than ancient coins of this type, that it's
made of a copper alloy whereas the ancient tetradrachms were made of
silver (ancient bronzes of this type exist but they're even smaller and
are seen far less), that it was manufactured with a modern press and has a
perfectly round shape, flat fields, and uniform rims and other design
elements as opposed to the irregularity of ancient hand-struck coins, and
that it features modern Latin lettering and Arabic numbering, which no
ancient Greek coins had because such lettering and numbering hadn't yet
come into existence.

What's more, the model used for this token wasn't a genuine New Style Owl
because some RCC participants convinced Huse that using a photo from a
coin book for design guidance could result in a copyright violation. For
some reason no genuine specimens of this common coin type were available
for a scan or photo and no attempt was made to ask for the use of anyone's
existing photo. So instead a Slavey replica of a New Style Owl tetradrachm
was purchased and a scan of it was made and sent to the minter even though
Slavey replicas have a reputation at least among those who know ancient
coins for their flamboyant exaggeration.

Unlike with genuine New Style Owls, which feature Athena with a pleasant
smile or neutral expression, Athena on this piece has an unpleasant scowl.
Another anomaly is the obverse legend "Pallas Athene," which never
appeared on ancient coins of this type and which misdescribes the Athena
that's illustrated. Pallas is one of the many epithets sometimes used as
part of Athena's name, in this case signifying an opponent she killed in
battle whose name she took. But the epithet used with Athena on New Style
Owls in coin books and coin catalogs is Parthenos, not Pallas, as in
Athena Parthenos, since the image used on these coins is thought to have
been based on the sculpture of Athena by Phidias that stood in the
Parthenon. What's more, Athena is much more commonly spelled with an "a"
at the end, "Athena" instead of "Athene," in books on numismatics as well
as mythology, not to mention being better known this way in the popular
culture. Two further anomalies are an owl that's smaller than on authentic
New Style Owls and a wreath around the coin's edge that's larger, with the
wreath taking up far more space even though the owl by far is the more
important design element.



Er....... he simply asked if these were still collected by rcc members and
what their value might be. Gogu gave him a pretty good idea in a single
sentence.


  #7  
Old May 22nd 10, 04:30 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 357
Default RCC Tokens

On 5/21/2010 10:47 PM, Bruce Remick wrote:
Er


You should do something about this problem.

he simply asked if these were still collected by rcc members and
what their value might be. Gogu gave him a pretty good idea in a single
sentence.


And I gave background as I observed it on how the first token came into
existence. And you feel you have to offer your sage commentary on my
doing this. Got to stick your two cents in no matter what. Not even two
cents, more like a farthing. No, not even a farthing, more like a
chocolate coin that fell behind a sofa cushion a couple of years ago and
is now chalky white and worthless.

Gogu's offer is one indication of the value of the first of these, but
only one person's, which is not a "pretty good idea" of its value, and
this was just for the first token whereas the OP indicated he had a
bunch of these, suggesting different ones. Along with asking here, Eric
can get indications of what the entire group of these have sold for in
the past by doing a Google search, or I can:

http://www.collectingbanter.com/show...t=33830&page=3
and
http://www.cointalk.com/t57/

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos
  #8  
Old May 22nd 10, 05:08 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 357
Default RCC Tokens

On 5/21/2010 11:30 PM, Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Eric can get indications of what the entire group of these have sold for
in the past...


Actually not Eric but Richard, the OP.

--

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos
  #9  
Old May 22nd 10, 10:36 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
nohope587[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default RCC Tokens

Thank you all for your input.
I recognize that they do not have much if any intrinsic value.
I have five each of
2002 5 Embers
2003 10 Embers
2004? Half Flame
I have a couple of the original tokens and a spark. But unlike Mr.
Goldsborough I like those and intend to keep them around a bit longer.
I will construct a sale thread i guess and see if there are any takers
$25 would also seem to me to be more than reasonable.

Richard (nohope587)

Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On 5/21/2010 11:30 PM, Reid Goldsborough wrote:
Eric can get indications of what the entire group of these have sold for
in the past...


Actually not Eric but Richard, the OP.

  #10  
Old May 22nd 10, 02:10 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default RCC Tokens


"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
On 5/21/2010 10:47 PM, Bruce Remick wrote:
Er


You should do something about this problem.

he simply asked if these were still collected by rcc members and
what their value might be. Gogu gave him a pretty good idea in a single
sentence.


And I gave background as I observed it on how the first token came into
existence. And you feel you have to offer your sage commentary on my doing
this. Got to stick your two cents in no matter what. Not even two cents,
more like a farthing. No, not even a farthing, more like a chocolate coin
that fell behind a sofa cushion a couple of years ago and is now chalky
white and worthless.


You really do see yourself as the master of prose, don't you. The OP wasn't
asking for "background" and you implied that you didn't know much about
their popularity or value. I see it as YOU sticking your two cents in.
You continue to post here on this open forum and you will continue to get
comments that you may or may not agree with. If it bothers you, go find an
owl site to play on where everyone thinks you're a hoot.


Gogu's offer is one indication of the value of the first of these, but
only one person's, which is not a "pretty good idea" of its value, and
this was just for the first token whereas the OP indicated he had a bunch
of these, suggesting different ones. Along with asking here, Eric can get
indications of what the entire group of these have sold for in the past by
doing a Google search, or I can:


I would say that one person's direct offer to buy does indeed provide a
"pretty good idea" of value. Bettter even than your own "I don't think
these have much value" comment. You obviously had little to contribute to
the OP's questions about popularity and value, but instead you chose to use
the post as another opportunity to ramble on with unasked-for owl-related
minutia where a simple link to your site would have sufficed.




 




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