A collecting forum. CollectingBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CollectingBanter forum » Collecting newsgroups » Books
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

CONDITION versus PRICE versus RARITY.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 7th 05, 05:06 PM
kittywake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default CONDITION versus PRICE versus RARITY.

Hello Folks,
I recently obtained a copy of what could be termed as a
quite rare book,....namely....authur...WILLIAM AUGUSTUS OSBALDISTON
title...THE BRITISH SPORTSMAN,OR,NOBLEMAN,GENTLEMAN,AND FARMER'S
DICTIONARY,OF RECREATION AND AMUSEMENT...London...printed by
J=2EStead...sold by Champante and Whitrow...1792...
The book is in remarkably good condition for its age,well bound in
leather,clean and tight.[Out of 42 copper plate prints 10 are
absent,also one leaf of text.]
Prior to obtaining the book,I found that very few copies of this book
were available,all mainly in libraries or universities,one other copy
existed, but was deemed to be a later edition,.....The Universal
Sportsman,....by Osbaldiston,...the Dublin issue.
Having checked with the British library,Cambridge uni.lib.and on
c=2Eo.p.a.c. I decided that missing prints and text was not that
important,so I bought the book...=A390.00 sterling...[the missing plates
and text will be replaced with fascimile copies.]
My collection is based soley on first editions of books about game
fishing in Ireland,so buying this book was slightly off topic
[Irish],but bear in mind that the Dublin issue was a later edn,.
So with reference to the subject [Condition/Price/Rarity]
What might you have done.
All the best for now,
John.

Ads
  #2  
Old September 7th 05, 07:51 PM
John R. Yamamoto-Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Of the copies Michael has listed, number 3 (Arnold Books, New Zealand)
grabs my attention. It is described as "An attractive presentable copy
of the rare hand coloured version". It is also significantly cheaper
than the two copies being sold by Joseph Felcone, which have only black
and white plates.

None of the six COPAC entries for this work (http://tinyurl.com/7eecn)
says anything about hand-coloured plates, so I'm wondering whether the
coloured copy isn't in fact a copy that has been hand-coloured by one
(or more) of its owners. That is to say, perhaps the hand-coloured
version is rare because in fact there is no such version.

I found surprisingly little information online about this book. Google
turned up under a dozen pages, one of which contained a copy up for
auction, with an estimated price of GBP 200-300
(http://dukes-auctions.com/Catalogues/Pf141102/page9.htm). There's no
description of its condition, though, and it doesn't state whether the
plates are coloured or not, so it doesn't help much.

I could find nothing to confirm that there was indeed a hand-coloured
version. The next step perhaps would be to get hold of the microfilm
(Woodbridge, CT : Research Publications, Inc., 1983) and see whether
that has coloured plates.

If I there was indeed a hand-coloured version, then I would probably
have paid the extra and bought that copy. If there wasn't, and the
hand-coloured copy being offered for sale is simply a copy that someone
happens to have coloured in along the way, then the OP's copy seems
like the best deal.

There are a couple of other things which are a mystery to me. According
to some of the COPAC entries, this book was first issued in 42 parts,
and I would have expected loose copies of the parts to be knocking
around. Yet there are none.

I suppose that could be explained if they were somewhat fragile and
subject to frequent use by sporting types who literally read them to
pieces. But if that is indeed the case it would mean that Osbaldiston
had been something of a staple of 18th and early 19th century sporting
literature. And if he had in fact been such a staple then there is a
further mystery; why has his name fallen into such obscurity today? An
exact phrase search for "William Augustus Osbaldiston" turns up no
web pages at all on Google, and a search for Osbaldiston + "The British
Sportsman" turns up only a handful of pages, none of which really give
any information about the book or its author. Nor is it included in
Richard William Cox's online bibliography of British sporting
literature (http://tinyurl.com/cesrl).

Is it listed in Norah M. Titley's 1985 bibliography of British sporting
artists, perhaps? Or G. Holme's Old English Sporting Books (1924)?
Perhaps the OP can enlighten us with some information about the book
and its author.

John
http://rarebooksinjapan.com

  #3  
Old September 7th 05, 08:10 PM
John R. Yamamoto-Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As a rider to all that, the reason I'm interested in all this
background stuff about the book and its author is that "CONDITION
versus PRICE versus RARITY" is a three-legged beast that won't stand
up. To make it stand up you need the fourth leg, which is desirability.
To put it bluntly, if this is a book that no one with an interest in
sporting history or anything else gives a damn about, then, even if the
only copy in the world is in perfect condition and is being sold for a
penny, it is only really worth having for sentimental reasons.

I'm sure it's worth much more than a penny, but until one can ascertain
to what extent this is a book that someone with an interest in the
field might wish to own it's difficult to get a clear sense of its
value.

There are several grey areas here, and the bibliographical and
biographical background of the book and its author may hold the key to
clearing them up.

John
http://rarebooksinjapan.com

  #4  
Old September 7th 05, 08:37 PM
John R. Yamamoto-Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I wrote:

According to some of the COPAC entries, this book was first issued
in 42 parts, and I would have expected loose copies of the parts to be
knocking around. Yet there are none.


Michael Adams replied:

The Edinburgh copy is one such.


You mean it is bound from the parts? Yes, it would appear so, from the
description.

It seems rather a coincidence though that the book calls for 42 plates.


Not a coincidence. Each of the original parts would have contained one
plate. Copies bound from the parts would therefore have contained 42
plates. Copies printed from the same blocks after the part run had run
out would also have contained 42 plates.

Also 42 seems a rather odd figure for a part work as against 12, 24, etc.


I won't quibble with that. I don't recall coming across a 42-part work
before, though I've not really come across works in 12 or 24 parts
either. I've had a few Dickens firsts bound from the parts, and the
standard for novels in the 19th century was 20 parts issued in 19
instalments (the final issue contained two parts). Other than that, I
can't really say.

Also the Dublin edition was published more or less contemporaneously,
if the 1792 in most of the descriptions of the Dublin edition are to
be believed, which would be a bit difficult unless the Title Pages
and prefaces of both Editions were issued last.


Well, without having copies to hand it is difficult to say, but the
Cambridge and National Library of Scotland entries on COPAC give a
putative date of 1792-96, and the Edinburgh copy notes that it is the
*preface* which is dated 1792. Other copies are catalogued as undated.

I think we can assume that the book itself is undated as such, that the
preface (which is dated) came out with the first part in 1792, and that
the ensuing parts were issued monthly, which is why it is assumed by
some cataloguers that the final part was issued in 1796.

Again its doubtful if there would be sufficient market for a part work
in Dublin.


Oh, I don't know. The Protestant ascendancy had to do *something* other
than collect rents, live on the fat of the land and play the oppressor!
Why would they not leaf through a monthly journal on the pastimes of
the fine, upstanding British gentleman?

But perhaps you are right. Anyway, there is no evidence that the parts
were issued serially in Ireland, only that the finished product was
published there in book form.

John
http://rarebooksinjapan.com

  #5  
Old September 7th 05, 09:21 PM
R. Totale
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 7 Sep 2005 12:10:48 -0700, "John R. Yamamoto-Wilson"
wrote:

I'm sure it's worth much more than a penny, but until one can ascertain
to what extent this is a book that someone with an interest in the
field might wish to own it's difficult to get a clear sense of its
value.


Or one could take the easy way out (well the Sotheby's/Christies way
out, anyway) and note it's come up for auction about 30 times in the
last 25 years, most copies boasting a complement of 42 hand colored
(or coloured) plates, some with various minor faults, at prices as low
as $85 for an incomplete (but more complete than the OPs) copy to a
high of $1850. Several fully colored copies have sold recently (1990s
forward) for about $850, several others, complete but with no mention
of coloring for around $300-350. A nice book, then, with continuing
interest, but not rare in commerce.


  #6  
Old September 7th 05, 10:50 PM
kittywake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


R. Totale wrote:
On 7 Sep 2005 12:10:48 -0700, "John R. Yamamoto-Wilson"
wrote:

I'm sure it's worth much more than a penny, but until one can ascertain
to what extent this is a book that someone with an interest in the
field might wish to own it's difficult to get a clear sense of its
value.


Or one could take the easy way out (well the Sotheby's/Christies way
out, anyway) and note it's come up for auction about 30 times in the
last 25 years, most copies boasting a complement of 42 hand colored
(or coloured) plates, some with various minor faults, at prices as low
as $85 for an incomplete (but more complete than the OPs) copy to a
high of $1850. Several fully colored copies have sold recently (1990s
forward) for about $850, several others, complete but with no mention
of coloring for around $300-350. A nice book, then, with continuing
interest, but not rare in commerce.


Well gentlemen,
It would seem that I have achieved not too bad a purchace
in obtaining this book. Both the content and the author especially will
require a lot of further research on my part.As most of you say, very
little seems to be known of the author.
Desirability...for myself ,that tends to go hand in hand with price.
I base mostly all my collection purchases,on condition first then price

takeing into account rarity, if the price does not meet my
approval,then I do not desire it.
The english short title catalogue lists three editions,one of which....
london...[1792/96] this edn.with dated preface,issued 42
parts,watermarks on paperdated 1794/95.
Your remarks on ''hand coloured prints'' ...yes...that is going to be
very
hard to prove one way or the other.
I thank you all very much for your interest, comments, and time.
All the very best for now,
John

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Summer 2004 special pricelist#1 Ian Robinson US Stamps 0 June 24th 04 05:40 PM
Hockey ODDS AND ENDS For Sale paralleldave Hockey 0 June 4th 04 02:31 AM
Getting the most from coin price guides -- periodic post Reid Goldsborough Coins 7 March 16th 04 12:12 PM
how real are prices on either side of a price jump? Tetradrachm Coins 5 February 23rd 04 08:06 AM
collection of Conway Steuart Fountain Pen All working good for every day Max Davis Pens & Pencils 0 November 22nd 03 06:01 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CollectingBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.