eBay Bids Revealed!

The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of
something I saw happen a while ago in an auction.

Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the
bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all
seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only
to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this
until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or
they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become
the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max
bid.

Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid
before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction #
to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway):

Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1.
Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not
known to other bidders.

Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to
put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder
#2's maximum bid).

High bid for the item now stands at $26.01.

Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result
of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of
$.50 over Bidder #1's maximum).

High bid for the item now stands at $35.51.

Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason).

(If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and
asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?"
Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word
for it, the following is what happened)

After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the
maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that
showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture.

What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on
an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will
be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel
your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up
to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do
the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price
every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is).

Just a ponderance for you to consider.


Steve
Buy the book before the coin
don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it!
It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf

(remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail)

Steve Ruud wrote:
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of
something I saw happen a while ago in an auction.

Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the
bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all
seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only
to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this
until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or
they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become
the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max
bid.

I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I
snipe.


Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid
before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction #
to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway):

Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1.
Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not
known to other bidders.

Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to
put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder
#2's maximum bid).

High bid for the item now stands at $26.01.

Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result
of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of
$.50 over Bidder #1's maximum).

High bid for the item now stands at $35.51.

Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason).

(If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and
asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?"
Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word
for it, the following is what happened)

After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the
maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that
showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture.

This should not have happened, and if it did, it must have been a glitch
in the matrix. After Bidder #3 cancels, the high bid should have
reverted to $26.01, one increment above the underbidder.


What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on
an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will
be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel
your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up
to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do
the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price
every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is).

This is known as bid shielding if done by buyers, and used to be used to
defraud sellers. Since eBay no longer allows bid retractions in the last
12 hours of the auction, the effectiveness of bid shielding has been
greatly diminished.

--
Bob

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote:

Steve Ruud wrote:
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of
something I saw happen a while ago in an auction.

Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the
bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all
seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only
to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this
until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or
they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become
the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max
bid.

I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I
snipe.

Me too.

I hate looking at the bid history and seeing the same bidder put in 17
bids all about 3 seconds apart and all going up by 1 bid increment.

Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid
before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction #
to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway):

Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1.
Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not
known to other bidders.

Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to
put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder
#2's maximum bid).

High bid for the item now stands at $26.01.

Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result
of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of
$.50 over Bidder #1's maximum).

High bid for the item now stands at $35.51.

Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason).

(If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and
asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?"
Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word
for it, the following is what happened)

After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the
maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that
showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture.

This should not have happened, and if it did, it must have been a glitch
in the matrix. After Bidder #3 cancels, the high bid should have
reverted to $26.01, one increment above the underbidder.

Come to think about it... I did see a black cat walk by and then, a
second later saw the same black cat!

But I swear to you this is what happened!

What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on
an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will
be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel
your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up
to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do
the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price
every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is).

This is known as bid shielding if done by buyers, and used to be used to
defraud sellers. Since eBay no longer allows bid retractions in the last
12 hours of the auction, the effectiveness of bid shielding has been
greatly diminished.

True.

I've only canceled 1 bid in my 7 year 11 month e-bay history so I'm
not as "up" on the cancellation procedures as I should be. It was
interesting to see the above ploy in action though.

I wonder if the Machines have corrected the mistake by now.

Steve
Buy the book before the coin
don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it!
It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf

(remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail)

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote:

Steve Ruud wrote:
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of
something I saw happen a while ago in an auction.

Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the
bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all
seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only
to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this
until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or
they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become
the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max
bid.

I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I
snipe.


These bidders nibble at my nerves, too. They usually have no or little
feedback, so I've wondered if they don't understand bidding or if
someone is trying to find my max. They are the reason I seldom put in
my max bid until the end of the auction. Otherwise I feel like I'm
bidding against myself.

I checked my records to see if the new cancelled bid method would
work. I cancelled a bid one time for someone who was having financial
problems. The bid was at $300+ when I cancelled. The bids realigned
themselves to about $200 as if he had never bid at all. (Fortunately,
he contacted me two days before the auction's end, so the auction was
able to recover.) I guess that this is the same thing that would
happen if a buyer retracted a bid.

As you wrote, a bid can't be retracted by the buyer in the last hours
of the auction. A seller can cancel the bid, but that would look a bit
suspicious in the last few minutes. The only one who might suffer is
the seller, since the higher bid might discourage the last minute
scramble for the coin. And if he/she was caught, NARU would be the new
seller name.

Anita

Steve Ruud wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote:

Steve Ruud wrote:
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free
shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory
of
something I saw happen a while ago in an auction.

Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the
bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've
all
seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher,
only
to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this
until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids)
or
they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they
become
the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's
max
bid.

I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I
snipe.

Me too.

I hate looking at the bid history and seeing the same bidder put in
17
bids all about 3 seconds apart and all going up by 1 bid increment.

Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum
bid
before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an
auction #
to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway):

Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1.
Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course
not
known to other bidders.

Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is
to
put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over
Bidder
#2's maximum bid).

High bid for the item now stands at $26.01.

Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe
result
of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid
increment of
$.50 over Bidder #1's maximum).

High bid for the item now stands at $35.51.

Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay
reason).

(If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest
and
asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the
cancellation?"
Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my
word
for it, the following is what happened)

After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01,
the
maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid
that
showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture.

This should not have happened, and if it did, it must have been a
glitch
in the matrix. After Bidder #3 cancels, the high bid should have
reverted to $26.01, one increment above the underbidder.

Come to think about it... I did see a black cat walk by and then, a
second later saw the same black cat!

But I swear to you this is what happened!

What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum
bid on
an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid
will
be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel
your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed
up
to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and
do
the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price
every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is).

This is known as bid shielding if done by buyers, and used to be
used to
defraud sellers. Since eBay no longer allows bid retractions in the
last
12 hours of the auction, the effectiveness of bid shielding has been
greatly diminished.

True.

I've only canceled 1 bid in my 7 year 11 month e-bay history so I'm
not as "up" on the cancellation procedures as I should be. It was
interesting to see the above ploy in action though.

I wonder if the Machines have corrected the mistake by now.

Steve
Buy the book before the coin
don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it!
It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf

(remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail)



I once tried to cancel a bid in the last few hours but ebay wouldn't
let me.
I had a good reason - it was for an obsolete note that I said was from
Virginia but I found out was really from New York. Since I couldn't
cancel
it I just let it run the course and explained to the high bidder what
the
problem was and said I wouldn't hold him to the sale since it was my
fault.
He backed out and that was fine with me.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:25:31 GMT, Anita wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote:

Steve Ruud wrote:
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of
something I saw happen a while ago in an auction.

Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the
bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all
seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only
to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this
until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or
they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become
the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max
bid.

I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I
snipe.


These bidders nibble at my nerves, too. They usually have no or little
feedback, so I've wondered if they don't understand bidding or if
someone is trying to find my max. They are the reason I seldom put in
my max bid until the end of the auction. Otherwise I feel like I'm
bidding against myself.

I checked my records to see if the new cancelled bid method would
work. I cancelled a bid one time for someone who was having financial
problems. The bid was at $300+ when I cancelled. The bids realigned
themselves to about $200 as if he had never bid at all. (Fortunately,
he contacted me two days before the auction's end, so the auction was
able to recover.) I guess that this is the same thing that would
happen if a buyer retracted a bid.

As you wrote, a bid can't be retracted by the buyer in the last hours
of the auction. A seller can cancel the bid, but that would look a bit
suspicious in the last few minutes. The only one who might suffer is
the seller, since the higher bid might discourage the last minute
scramble for the coin. And if he/she was caught, NARU would be the new
seller name.

Anita


Well, very interesting post. I've never cancelled any of my bids.
I've cancelled a few from bidders before i've taken an auction down
but that was always because I made a mistake in the listing.
As for bidding, sometimes I nibble, sometimes I don't. The reason?
Who knows. I enter my bid and I'm not the high bidder, I may put two
or three more bids in working my way up. If I'm high bidder at that
point I put in a higher bid to make more of a cushion above the
previous high bidder.

Actually I'll have to say that some would consider me a rude bidder
but I'm not really concerned as to how others bid, I bid as I please
and win a lot more of what I want than I don't win.

When I win and the seller takes paypal I'll usually pay within seconds
of winning. If I have to wait for a total, I'll pay that within
seconds of getting the e-mail. If I have to pay by check I mail it
out within the hour and if it takes a money order I will that as soon
as the post office opens.

When I sell and get paid I post positive feedback as soon as the
check, money order, etc. comes in. I don't hold checks unless they
are starter checks that aren't pre-printed or if they are for an
inordinately large amount. I also ship the day I receive payment if
possible and if not, it goes out the next day.

I have fun, I get stuff I want, I sell stuff I don't want and it helps
to pass the time. If someone has a problem with the way I play the
game, I guess they can always block me. It really doesn't hurt my
feelings that bad, but if I buy from you once, I always come back to
check your listings again, and there are a handful of sellers that I
buy from consistently. So, maybe if you over look some of my quirks
you can sell more stuff
Cliff