Ebay follow up

"barefoot" wrote in message
oups.com...


...........and the people have spoken...http://xrl.us/7r3o

MrB

why, because my customer got $3 grand for a poster that she wouldn't
have sold for $500 without it? that doesn't make sense...
your link doesn't make sense either...bunch of people who say "i
wouldn't buy unless it's steiner or psa dna'd?" what are you trying to
say???

i do see the couple of posts where people send in stuff and it doesn't
pass even though they got it themselves. but that's going to happen, i
guess...that's what most of the link you sent, was for.
m



Let me put it in simple terms for the simplton.

PSA can not definatively 100% prove the authenticity of an autograph. Fact.

Furthermore, the conflict of interest that exists merely by the fact that
many of these so called experts are also dealers is ludicrous.

Therefore, the fact they have set themselves up as a supposed benchmark for
authenticity is concerning to say the least.

With the buyers, feedback is very important. After all, that's what we
look at when we want to buy something, right? As sellers we're
subjected to the scrutiny of our buyers whether it's true or not. They
can say whatever they want. Sellers in general HATE the new feedback
system! Why? Because buyers get to grade us on everything to do with
the sale. Regardless of whether it's in our power or not. For
instance, shipping and handling charges and shipping time. I charge a
very low amount for handling on my auctions. It does not even come
close to time or fees involved. Considering the foundation that eBay
was built on. The buyer is buying something at a bargain so they pay
shipping costs. Well, that involves a LOT more than the cost of the
postage. Anyway, the lowest score on my feedback is shipping and
handling costs. I am up front and honest about my handling on my
listings, and anyone can see, for instance that a postcard would cost .
41 cents to send, but I charge $1.00. You don't just stick it in the
envelope, address it, lick it shut, and send it off. There is a lot of
care and expense involved in making sure the package gets to the buyer
securely.

Pardon posting underneath; felt I could answer this way. I guess
that's true about you're kind of at the mercy of buyers on feedback. I
HAVE seen some people be totally unreasonaable posting bad feedback
for really no good reason. A neighbor upset one purchase of curtains
didn't contain the description the seller had hand basted the seam
that came undone. Instead of asking for a refund or whatever; the
result was negative feedback. Another person emailed me asking once
if they should leave bad feedback for someone because they hadn't had
the item after like three days. I said to give them at least a good
week even with priority (after payment, then packing and shipping the
following day etc it can take at least that long). People are
impatient. However, there still is no good excuse for keeping
retaliatory feedback on Ebay. Most often, those cases are clear cut.
If I might, I don't want to rehash what I said a million times before,
but if you are taking a hit on feedback because of shipping, you need
to fix that. Here's how I feel it should be run (my opinion only).
People should list the items on Ebay at a starting bid they can afford
the lose (the lowest they should go), or set a reserve. In addition,
the shipping should be actual shipping and no more than a set amount
allowed for "handling". All of it should be standardized as if you
took it to the post office. This would solve half the problems right
there. Lastly, sellers out to be up front with their descriptions (new
is used a lot when they mean "like new" and stuff like that). Honesty
and the more information the better. On the buyer end, they should
add up all the costs before bidding. They should read auctions
thoroughly before bidding (I am guilty of not doing this all the time)
and they should be patient and reasonable if problems arise with
broken items etc. On Ebays end, they should standardize the shipping
like half.com does. They should be more proactive with their customer
service and a bit more personal. They should not allow masking of
auctions or ID's if the outcome is more harmful than good...

Yes, there are sellers out there that jack up the shipping to cover
way more than their costs. But, obviously people are buying from them
or they wouldn't do it. Just don't buy from them! Do you go into a
store and say, what is the price of this without shipping and
handling? Do you think the items you buy from a store don't have that
cost attached somewhere down the line? A person makes the choice to
buy something from someone when you know before hand that it's going
to be high, and then complains about it?

My posts by the way did not talk about shipping. Not these past ones
anyway. So I don't know why you are questioning me on this...

eBay does have a very strict policy on shill bidding. I've known quite
a few sellers who have been busted. Either by having their spouses
from another computer bid, or they themselves having another user name
on another computer bidding. eBay takes it VERY seriously, and I
believe them if they've told you they've checked it out and it's
clean. As mentioned previously, they have ways. MOVE ON!

Well, I will most definitely move on, but if I see another incident of
this from the same guy (still watching auctions I am interested in and
I get more info to prove my case, you bet your arise I am turning them
in; sorry, I just know I am dead on with this one). I don't just
arbitrarily pick out one guy and ONE auction. I checked it out a LOT
and no matter how it flies, it's not right.

Good Lord, there are so many other ways to buy things in this world,
why spend your time in a place that makes you miserable?

It doesn't make me miserable to know I could be actually hurting
someone bad and helping some people. I don't know why in the world
you people on here are so inactive. All followers here and no
leaders. All take it up the ass people.... and all getting perturbed
at people who try to help. I just don't get it. No offense, but
instead of worrying about me trying to take out a minor criminal, why
are you sticking UP for them? It seems like that when you are trying
to stop me from something that has no affect on you at all. After
all, you can put my posts on killfile if you don't like it and nothing
I am doing hurts you (unless of course you are shill bidding or doing
something to take advantage of the general buying population). As a
matter of fact, maybe I could help rid ebay of one piece of scum who
might have ripped you off. So why get ****ed at my posts? Seems like
you are ... if I am wrong, I apologize, but if I want to warn people
of potential misdoers to save them a few headaches, I don't see the
harm. You can take the advice or leave it?

I could, quite frankly, go on and on about the injustices and the
grief sellers and buyers, go through on eBay. And, believe me, there
is a lot! The bottom line is, is that I can still work and shop in my
jammies, not pay overhead, have a pretty flexible schedule, and be
home for my family. And, if I don't like it, I can go somewhere
else.........

Well you SHOULD bring up bad buyers and sellers here. Non paying
people, all that. You COULD help someone. Even if one person,
wouldn't it be worth it? Why are you not? Why are people afraid?
Are you someone who'd witness a crime on the street and be too afraid
to speak? Were you the kid in school who watched someone being picked
on and looked away? Watched someone kick and animal and say nothing?

It appears to me you think I am saying all sellers are bad and took
offense to it because you are a seller. I have no problem with sellers
who are honest. I've actually come on here before and given
recommendations of people who've been outstanding and still if someone
emails me with "do you know anyone who..." if I remember and know, I
will certainly recommend. I believe it's a two way street here. Out
the scammers and pump up the good. In a perfect world, good win out
and business will boom by word of mouth. Too bad it's not a perfect
world... because nobody likes to out evil; instead, they take it and
do nothing. Sad.

~Renee'~


On Oct 26, 11:25 am, "Auto Cop" wrote:
Sue,

Many of the issues you raised (fraudulent sellers, retaliatory FB, etc.) are
simply not problems that can be fixed with a "magic bullet". There are too
many gray areas here. For example, what may be retaliatory one person you
may be just a seller or buyer's way of expressing that the transaction
wasn't acceptable for them either. How in the world is eBay supposed to
filter through each and every supposed example of retaliatory FB and
arbitrate that. That just be ridiculously time consuming and cost
prohibitive and therefore unrealistic. No one ever thinks negative feedback
is justified when they receive it.

I can tell you for a fact that eBay execs have told a group of their biggest
sellers straight up that they believe all sellers are replaceable; buyers
are not. From the top down at eBay, they operate under this theory. Now,
that may not mean that eBay can/will eliminate every fraudster, address
every whim or satisfy every buyer by any means. But it does mean that in its
overall policy, eBay would rather err on the side of buyers.

Regarding the new star feedback system, you're incorrect that it's not any
different than the old system. eBay is using it (and will be using it even
more dramatically in the future) to suspend and/or restrict sellers with low
star ratings.

You mentioned search... eBay just instituted a new search that severely
penalizes sellers who don't specify a S/H amount by putting their items at
the bottom of search. Additionally, they will soon be implementing a policy
that will put sellers with low FB and star ratings lower in search. These
are pro-buyer policies.

Regarding the "consumer groups", again, it's incorrect to say they're mostly
made up of sellers. How do I know? Because these consumer groups are called
Voices and I'm a member. Voices is evenly split between buyers and sellers
and the sellers are segmented into all different sized sellers. My
particular group that was flown out to San Jose consisted of 5 buyers and 4
sellers (one other seller had to back out at the last minute due to a family
emergency). Out of the four sellers, one was a "big" seller (relatively
speaking) one was a "medium" seller and two were small hobby sellers who
also were buyers. The vast majority of the issues raised were "buyer" issues
and most of the seller issues were site "tweeks". In other words, they
weren't issues of money.

Additionally, Voices is an ongoing program that includes many weekly
conference calls, emails, a chat board, etc. Who do you think has the most
time to participate in these things? I'll give you a hint... it's not
sellers; especially not large ones. Most of the input on these things comes
from buyers not sellers.

As a member, I know what policies are coming down the pike months before
they happen. For quite some time now, the focus has been on getting the
fraudulent sellers and poorer performing sellers off the site. Almost every
recent new policy and almost every upcoming one is targeted to that goal.
BTW, this is costing eBay A LOT. Listings are dropping for the first time
ever and much of it is due to the fact that so many sellers are being kicked
off, suspended and restricted. They're actually having to look at fee cuts
to get the existing sellers to list more to make up for it.

Again, eBay just kicked off Bargainland... their biggest seller. Again,
these things are happening without fanfare. Just because you are not reading
them in the New York Times doesn't mean they aren't occuring.

This brings me to your next point... you want eBay to tell you what action
they take against a particular seller. Well, unfortunately they can't do
that. There are legal privacy issues that eBay must abide by... they have no
choice.

Next, the shilling software. The shilling software operates even when there
are no specific complaints. Many sellers are kicked off for shilling without
ever having a single complaint filed against them. Some are kicked off
improperly and have to fight through eBay red tape for weeks to be
reinstated. Again, eBay errs on the side of buyers here.

Regarding masking, I know you don't like it and you feel it makes it easier
to shill. To an extent, I actually share your concern. However, thousands of
eBayers were being ripped off by fake 2nd second chance offers on high
priced items. Many of these people lost thousands of dollars. I think you'd
agree that something had to be done to protect these people. Possible
solutions were kicked around for nearly two years before ebay implemented
masking. No one, including eBay themselves, was thrilled with the solution
but it seemed to be the best one. It continues to be tweeked.

Regarding Todd, he wasn't kicked off... he was chased off. eBay's stupid
PSA/DNA quick opinion policy was the culprit. The worthless quick opinions
found several of his items were not authentic and he was briefly suspended.
He knew they were authentic and sent them in for full opinions... all of
them passed. It cost him so much grief (and money), he moved his entire
business off of eBay. He had a positive FB rating of 99.5% and
tens-of-thousands of satisfied customers, so if you think he was one of the
problem sellers, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Again, as with any big business there is much to criticize about eBay. That
criticism should be accurate and factual, though. Stating that eBay favors
sellers over buyers may have been accurate at one time, but it definitely
isn't now and hasn't been for awhile.

-A

No poster is worth 3k; she got rich off of someone else's misery. (if
they aren't miserable now, when they try to recoup their funds or tell
people how much they paid and get laughed at, they'll certainly feel
it then)

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:41:33 -0700, barefoot
wrote:



...........and the people have spoken...http://xrl.us/7r3o

MrB

why, because my customer got $3 grand for a poster that she wouldn't
have sold for $500 without it? that doesn't make sense...
your link doesn't make sense either...bunch of people who say "i
wouldn't buy unless it's steiner or psa dna'd?" what are you trying to
say???

i do see the couple of posts where people send in stuff and it doesn't
pass even though they got it themselves. but that's going to happen, i
guess...that's what most of the link you sent, was for.
m

psa dna gets bad grades from the better business bureau because people
have been buying autographs for 20 years thinking the stuff is real,
and it was deemed not authentic. so that person, instead of
complaining to the source, complains to the bbb...and you don't have
to be a member of the bbb anymore anyway...

Mike, seriously. You apparently don't know what you are talking
about. Have you ever submitted anything to the BBB? They don't give
you a bad rating unless some evidence is proven it! I submitted a BBB
complaint before on Shell Oil Company and learned about that and the
attorney general's office too. They actually investigated the matter
with actual people calling the agency, talking to me, talking to the
next company I brought my car to; to make sure I was not lying! Good
grief Mike, know that you can't have complaints just thrown on your
record unless you have some evidence. In my case it was pretty
simple. A worker stole a part out of my car. The guy told me, which
I had the guy sign (stupid guy with no brains in his head) a page
saying that's what was wrong with my car. (they said my car needed
new whatever and they couldn't fix it for a long time as they were
busy and it was some astronomical sum). I knew they were lying and
because my husband was gone (military duty) overseas, they thought I
was a brainless idiot. I had no other car (except the old Benz which
was a 1969 in need of some carbs at the time) and I was scared to
drive it. I had no family there and we were new to the area, so
nobody I knew their phone to call and I had two small kids. They
smelled bait. Well I did have a credit card and my charm.... so I
called another company to come tow it (Ironically, shell reimbursed me
for that because I had their auto club), and towed to a shop who
doesn't work on "regular" cars (I had to cry and use the kids to
convince them) and had them look at it. The mechanic from Shell had
STOLEN the prom (think that's what it's called and after a call from
someone either BBB, state AG or Shell HQ) out of my car.
Then the guy tried to tell me it was all this other stuff wrong (to
bilk me out of money). Well, I took the paper, faxed it to the
headquarters, BBB and AG's office with my story and the phone number
of the other mechanic and the guy lied and said I drove the car with
the part missing. Only thing is, apparently this part that was
missing you CAN'T drive at all if it's not in. That's what this other
guy told me (they worked on race cars). I ended up getting my part
back, money for a rental and extra cash (basically just enough to
cover my tow again and a my taxi). I was so ****ed at the owner; as
he was rude and his guy ignored my car while even helping pump bicycle
tires etc and working on his friend's car before looking at my car).
And here I am sitting with two small kids in the heat for like 3-4
hours waiting for him to even have a look (in case it was something he
could do on the spot quickly). I wanted the guy to admit what he did
(the other mechanic from the other shop called the shell guy and told
him he was was cooperating with the corporate and BBB/Attorney
general) and he wouldn't do it or apologize. I did learn other
complaints from there had been on the books. Oh, I may still have the
letters. I should look for them. I do remember getting physical mail.
So if PSA/DNA got ratted on, they'd KNOW about it. But to this day
I've boycotted shell stations and tell people don't go to that
specific gas station if the same guy runs it! I think the guy might
have been fired but I don't know. You can probably go check... lol as
you live in Tucson right? This could change now as this was quite a
while ago, but I doubt it. Bureaucracy's usually take forever to
change.


look, i'm not entirely happy that it comes to having to take things to
psa or gai or jsa (who, by the way, has almost no authority and has
lost a lot of his business that he used to have with psa and if you
look the three of them up on ebay- just punch in psa dna or james
spence without putting in anything else- you'll usually see that jsa
has the stuff that sells for less money or has no bids at all)...but
the bottom line is, and i hate to say it...your word, my word anyone's
word, doesn't matter. it's not worth it anymore...no one takes our
word anymore...except the small minority of people who are our friends
or regular associates....but times are so bad in the autograph world
that at least SOMETHING helps people to sell their product other than
just "i got this myself." sadly, a lot of people say they got
something themselves for the simple fact that they think this will
change an authenticator's mind. they didn't get it themselves, they
just want it to pass. what can you do?

NOTHING helps sell an item more than honesty and an ok to decent deal.
As for graphs, they can EDUCATE themselves the best they can. NOBODY
needs an authenticator when what they want they can do for free
themselves or in a group of friends who they trust will help and guide
them free.

and there's all sorts of wild rumors about steiner, autographworld,
psa dna etc...that are just rumors (they could be true) but the fact
of the matter is, a lot of those "complaints" that you just showed are
in the vein of," i heard that they do this...or this..." not a bunch
of "it happened to me" type stories...and until you really STOP
listening to third party gibberish and STOP trying to pass that on as
an authentic story and only listen to the "it happened to me" stories
(in this type of instance, not in general) then you really don't know
the story...

I never heard anything about Autographworld. When I buy, it's pretty
much from them so do tell. And I am sorry, but the "it happened to me
stories" are what you SHOULD be listening to. That's where the truth
lies. You would rather buy from someone whose been a forger say
because PSA authenticated it instead of listening to someone who
bought from them and knew their graph was fake and had proof? Get
real.

so the people haven't spoken, they passed along "i heard this..."
stories...that's is neither fact or opinion.
sorry.
m


I want to know why you think "I heard this"
stories are bad. If someone tells you direct and you have not heard
it 15 times down the line, I see nothing wrong in sharing a story. My
friend Rob tells his Ebay problems sometimes (he's a seller and a
buyer) and I know he's not a liar and I am not. So if I can help
someone else by sharing it, I will. I won't however, pass on a story
say from Rob who heard it from Dave who... there's a line drawn for me
and it's one person from me and that's it. Or myself. I however,
would also not pass on a story from one person removed from me if it
was someone I didn't trust though. If I did, I would certainly
paraphrase it first and probably only use it to make a point about
something else etc. Not as a statement of truth. So it boils down to
this; you don't have to listen to the stories. We also don't have to
listen to yours.

I agree Mike as you can easily educate (which on some I know you have
done so) yourself on certain sigs, contact the celeb or their rep and
ask them direct and on those you can't, surround yourself with trusted
friends who have nice in person exemplars to compare (as well as look
for licensed material like on the signature database) etc. Heck, I am
about to ad Pamela Sue Martin if I ever update and Shania Twain (2nd
example). Though not perfect either, used in conjunction with known
examples (and heck you can even visit their websites as many have
sites and use their sigs there).

I have a couple hundred to add to that database. They'll be artists
and costume designers and such from actual works of art. There's many
places to get help free. I appreciate PSA's service though. Some
people want to pay and that's ok. If it makes them feel better
whatever. However, the prices for authentication are too high and
basically, in a sale, most of the items they authenticat are not
THOUSANDS of dollars. If you have items that are THAT expensive, you
need to go to a world renown place with no problems associated with
it. As for items worth a couple hundred bucks or less, why the heck
pay 75.00 for something that most likely retails for only a couple
hundred but in reality is only worth maybe a hundred? Retail and
sellable on the auction or internet circuit is totally different...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:08:07 GMT, "Gummby3"
wrote:

I've said it before, but I still don't like the idea of paying someone for
an opinion that has a high probability of being erroneous. If PSA, Steiner,
the bum on the corner, whatever claims to be an expert in authentication,
then they should give a guarantee. No, not that worthless COA. I'm talking
about a guarantee of their work. The BS I read on the Ebay link about "I'd
rather PSA to say it's not real" doesn't float. IF PSA can NOT 100%
guarantee that the autograph is real or not, then they should refund the
money that the customer paid, minus s/h fees. This is especially true if
the customer knows for a fact that it's legit. Any other legit company of
any honesty will not take the customer's money if they can't do the work
properly. If a house painter does a house, but only partially, then they
should not be expected to be paid. If a grounds keeper mows only half a
yard, they don't get paid for the work. Why should PSA expect to get paid
for a wishy washy "It might or might not be real" version of an
"authentication"? Will PSA refund the customer's money if one of their peer
companies proves that the autograph that they denounced turns out to be
legit simply because PSA did not know for sure?

Don't take this as a "bashing" to you. I am a concerned collector that
simply wants to know the facts. This is what any concerned potential client
of ANY company will, and do, ask beforehand.

uhh sue...well, YOU can't get daniel radcliffe...if you did, it would
be like the fake orlando bloom on your website...
and as far as i know, mr. b...i don't think that ANY of the psa people
are allowed to sell their own wares...and i'm pretty sure it's
definitive and in their contracts that they can not...or else they'd
make a lot more money than they do...but i know that i've personally
discussed that with a few of them and they call up the conflict of
interest thing and that they can not sell, nor can they even sell
their old collections...so i don't think that is valid in any way...


any poster is worth 3 grand...a real godfather should be worth 3
grand...but there are NONE...no one went to brando with a poster that
has some other on it already and got marlon brando on it as well. but
there's a lot of $9.99. posters (or $19.99)..which is a joke...
are you gonna tell me that my lord of the rings posters (with over 50
autographs on them) aren't worth over $3 grand?? i wouldn't take less
than 5 for them (i have one of each movie)...they are generally
considered the most completed posters in the world (i'm sure there's
some studio people that may have more people on theirs, but no one
knows they are in existance)...
how about a doors signed poster? are you sure there are NO POSTERS
worth 3 grand...and no, i don't believe that the customer will ever be
disappointed. you sure that some star wars posters aren't worth that?
i know that the harry potter kids are kids and they will be signing
for a while...but OTHER COLLECTORS WHO WATCHED ME GET THE AUTOGRAPHS
offered me $250 a pop for daniel radcliffe on photos. just like the
day we all got brando on the set of don juan de marco, when the
bidding BETWEEN COLLECTORS got over $800 for a signed index card
because one guy said he was selling his...just days later...
so, to be honest..NO ONE KNOWS THE TRUE VALUE OF OUR AUTOGRAPHS, not
until someone is willing to buy them...
mike

oh...and for gummby...

i can't answer why psa dna won't give a definitive answer about
whether something is good or not. i am still of the opinion that if
they can't authenticate something, they shouldn't take your money.
like i stated before, i started writing an article about
authentication but psa dna was the only company that would answer my
questions and autograph collector magazine (now just called autograph)
didn't want to have it look like a slick ad for psa dna, so it didn't
run. but i am pretty aware of the means to authenticating something
that every item goes through.
i can't answer why they don't stand behind their word except to say
that it's not their product. it's my product..they are just a third
party authenticator. it's just another way to help your word along. it
sucks, i'm one of the most well known dealers in the country
(reguardless of what sue says, i'm known with a GREAT reputation.) but
to attract new customers that are less autograph savvy, this is one of
the measures that we as dealers must take these days to make sure that
we are on the up and up...

no offense, but most dealers that sell fakes, don't know they are
selling fakes. they have no idea...they've been snowed with fancy
shots of celebs signing what appears to be the items they are buying.
and been shammed by people with hundreds of photos with themselves and
the stars they are selling. and been ripped off with pretty paper
coa's..then they go to the public with the product that they really
know nothing about and someone runs them..as well they should...but
sadly, we are here to make money. sure, i love my collection...but i
would have grown up a long time ago and went on to be a teacher or
announcer if i didn't start making money at this. it's not a very
attractive thing to tell women in their 30's that "i'm an autograph
dealer." sounded cute when i was 25, not so cute now that i'm
30...doesn't really matter how much money i make...but at the same
time, this is what i chose. and since this is what i chose, i have to
take all the cautions to make sure that EVERYONE IS SATISFIED with
what i sell. so i have to go to one of these places...i do not trust
gai..at all. they are a copycat company. i'd rather go to the
original...sure, they have their problems, but those problems are
multiplied with the other companies. it's a calculated risk thing.
so yes, if a new customer asked me what psa means (which happens)..i
send them to the website and say "well, you don't know me...do you
trust me to sell you an honest to goodness real autograph." well,
since they don't know me from any other nut who's selling
autographs...i can tell that customer the story of obtaining the
autograph, show them the photo books etc... but i go the extra mile to
say that "hey, this company has also looked at the item you are
interested in, they are THE experts in the field, and they trust my
stuff too." that's really the best way i can explain it...

now, to run this into mr. b's opinion, which is really valid...i did
mention this earlier...but the guys at psa dna, as far as i know, are
not selling autographs. they aren't out getting autograpls and then
slapping a psa sticker on them and selling them. from my
understanding, they aren't allowed to...they signed all kinds of
contracts in this reguard because of the aforementioned "conflict of
interest."
now i can say that the ones i know ALL used to be autograph dealers
(except for steve grad, i don't recall him ever selling anything and
i've had a look at his collection and belive that just about
everything i've ever seen him get signed, is still in his collection.
he used to work at maestronet and i think they made him sign similar
contracts.)...and with their knowledge and expertise, have gotten into
the authentication world. i know that one of the guys i know, now
doesn't even obtain autographs anymore except for a very minute amount
of time. he's on the road doing authentications so much, he's actually
sick of even looking at autographs. i know that i personally could be
working at any one of these authentication places and i don't believe
that i could be the definitive answer to tell you something is real or
fake. i don't think i could be that last line to tell someone, who may
or may not have gotten the autograph themselves and say "sorry, this
doesn't look right to me." i've seen too many chicken scratches and
then the same person sign something perfectly. i believe that i'd
make too many mistakes...the only thing i could do was tell you an
obvious fake...really. but one of the guys at psa is always quizzing
me, showing me stuff that he photographed or scanned and asking me my
opinions and then telling me whether i was deemed right or wrong, and
i'm pretty good at that, if i've gotten the person myself. there's
some people i can't tell one way or the other, never gotten them or
seen their autographs....

now, on to sue's shilling thing, one last time...there's not another
auction house in the world that will even let you see the bidder list,
much less EVER allow you to contact them...if someone is shilling, you
shouldn't even be allowed to see if it's happening or not...i've been
told by ebay people that they are taking this function down
soon...you'll never know who the high bidder is in the future...so,
the precautions will never be known soon enough...
and yes, i don't have an ebay account, but they will answer any
questions i have..
mike

there's a lot in here, so i'll pop em one at a time.
1)Mike, seriously. You apparently don't know what you are talking
about. Have you ever submitted anything to the BBB? They don't give
you a bad rating unless some evidence is proven it!

this is not true...the bbb is not even a trusted source for info about
a business any longer...there was a time where you actually had to be
a member of the bbb just to run a business. but not any longer. you
don't need "proof" to file a complaint. if you actually look at the
complaints against psa, one guy actually said that they "switched" his
real autograph with one of their fakes...there was no proff offered in
this situation...
the guy who runs strickler sports posted the complaints on his myspace
site...and i HAD TO see if they were real...EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT was
a one off, with no follow up...and the bbb still gave psa a d rating.
they aren't keeping people's stuff...this is what i'm talking about
when you just figure something has to be right, because you assume it
must be so...how long ago was this shell oil thing?? because in fact,
a few of the psa dna complaints actually say that there was no follow
up. maybe they are lax in their ways these days, or it's simply too
hard to deal with all the companies there are out there...but i'm sure
psa isn't a member of the BBB, so they didn't do any follow up on any
of the complaints...

2 NOTHING helps sell an item more than honesty and an ok to decent
deal.
As for graphs, they can EDUCATE themselves the best they can. NOBODY
needs an authenticator when what they want they can do for free
themselves or in a group of friends who they trust will help and
guide
them free.
this is not true...people buy willy nilly and without any thought as
to what they are truly buying...that's why so many people and so many
forgers get away with it on ebay. with all the complaints on ebay that
there are, there are probably a thousand more if the buyers actually
knew what they were buying. but everyone wants to have an authentic
product. but they also want to spend almost no money for it. i should
bring up the story of my own cousin (now, she lives in ohio and i
don't know them all that well) but when i went out for the wedding,
she had a FAKE stone cold steve austin photo on her wall that she just
bought for her soon to be husband (the guy is actually my cousin, not
the girl, but she's the one i talked to about this.) and she knew i
was an autograph person...she just bought it on ebay for like 9$, just
cause it was cheap. now, let's use that to set up the hypothetical.
let's just say that she has a kid, and that kid wants a miley cyrus.
but now my cousin's been burned and she doesn't want her kid
burned...where does that kid get her miley cyrus from??? someone who
has no story and the ebay item line just says "this item was signed by
the celebrity in person. i go to all the premieres and events in
hollywood and am well known in the autograph community." or, do they
go to the dealer who's line says "this is signed by miley cyrus, it
was signed on october 21, 2006 at the ______ premiere. i also got this
item authenticated by psa dna to protect the customer and so that
customer further knows that i do not sell fakes. psa dna certified
g123456" etc. etc. the price is a little higher, but it's a given,
there's all this information AND the certification number from a
reputable authentication house AND now, this is also a reputable
dealer...which would you decide...and no, you can't say "NEITHER."
and there are more of these type customer, people that are buying
what's hot right now. people don't really buy kirk douglas or people
that are worth well more than $100, most of the time...sure, there are
fans, that are buying madonna no matter what etc..but this is why i
can use psa dna as a tool.

look, i don't like having to use this tool. but it just helps to
assure authenticity to a new buyer...sure sue, you are right...it's
great to be honest and forthright...but then again, i have people
attacking me right here on this newsgroup, and you've never even seen
1 item that i sold...so look what it really takes to run an autograph
business...sadly, unless you deal in just private signing autographs,
you are called a forger all the time everyday...

3) never heard anything about Autographworld. When I buy, it's
pretty
much from them so do tell.
stories about autographworld..well, i posted on here that they shill
bids on their own site...well, i can't prove it, and for the most
part, i don't think they do it on everything...but i'm not the only
one hypothesising this. but like i said, i can't be totally right...
there's also a story floating around, mostly in new york, that since
autographworld puts right on their site that they buy collections,
they've been burned a few times...most notably with a bunch of mickey
mantle signed baseballs...but i've never seen them sell the stuff
that's rumored to be burned on, so, it's good that they didn't (if
they didn't)..
and, autographworld tells people that "if they didn't buy it from us,
it's fake." i've sold to many of their customers who have stopped
being their customers on the simple fact that they do sell stuff from
other people, so they call their own customers forgers...even if they
aren't saying it directly, but this blanket statement is silly...and i
can prove that one.
like i said, there's rumors about everyone...no one is above reproach.

4) And I am sorry, but the "it happened to me
stories" are what you SHOULD be listening to. That's where the truth
lies. You would rather buy from someone whose been a forger say
because PSA authenticated it instead of listening to someone who
bought from them and knew their graph was fake and had proof? Get
real.
well, yes. but people aren't passing fake autographs through psa
dna...no matter what you have heard or anything, there aren't any "i
bought this psa dna'd item and just for kicks, ran it through gai and
it didn't pass" stories. you're right, the people selling autographs
should have something other than just the psa dna coa to go with their
stuff...but like i said before, most dealers do not get the stuff
themselves...they buy from other people...so they aren't going to have
the first person "i got this guy here." stories anyway...but i have
started to run into dealers who say "i won't buy items unless is
passes psa dna or gai." and that's interesting too...which means that
they'll take it to several authenticators...what does that really
mean? that psa isn't the best, or that it's good to go to all the
different people that authenticate so as to not get stale and to also
tell people that they trust their product no matter what...and that's
really the only reason i go through psa...because i'm so confident in
my product that i know it will pass the authentication sticks...i've
went to gai, my stuff passed there as well, but it's not convenient
for me as the guys from psa are close to the starbrite offices and
their authenticating schedule is quicker for me... for the most part,
i don't get a listers most of the time. i get them, but on a day to
day basis, it's better to hope for the "hot" items...a listers come
and go...

5)However, the prices for authentication are too high and
basically, in a sale, most of the items they authenticate are not
THOUSANDS of dollars.

for the most part, i agree here...but someone like daniel radcliffe
(i'll just use this example)...he doesn't sign much. he did that play
in london and absolutely refused to sign potter stuff (he did
occassionally sign index cards) but there is no one that got him at
that play in london, for the time he was there, on a harry potter
item. he signed a lot in los angeles at the premiere here...but he was
picky and choosy...and to top it off, he signed a lot of autographs
with a expo dry erase marker his mom gave him...that's right, i'm not
kidding...so you take your autograph and it rubs up against something
(and there were THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE there, there was lots of rubbing)
and your autograph almost completely disappeared...same with the star
ceremony. i almost completely lost my radcliffe on one of my posters
because of that damn marker...and lots of fans with magazines and the
like, got burned. he did sign some stuff with the right kind of
markers...but not everything... he didn't sign at the new york
premiere and he only signed sporadically at the london premiere (he
was mostly just taking pictures with girls in the front rows.) so to
be honest, he may have signed like 3000 autographs promoting the movie
(and i have a total of 8 from everyone i worked with...but we lost one
8 x 10, and one photo, he was signing and taking a photo with someone
at the same time, and all the letters in his last name were on top of
one another)..but out of those 3000 items, maybe there were 10 posters
done... seriously..and my poster had the other kids and chris
rankin...i know that in los angeles, i was the only one working
posters with sale as an intent (there were some girls whose posters
got damaged and there was one dealer with a mini poster from the first
movie)...and of the 3 posters i got him on, one of them was signed in
that dry erase marker and kind of rubbed off at the bottom of his last
name...it only sold at r and r auctions for $457 last month. so with
those very low numbers, i'm sure the person who bought that popster
for $3 grand, knew what they were doing....they know the number is
LOW.
but for the most part, you're right, just cause it's authenticated
doesn't make it worth so much...this customer apparently wanted the
poster and said "if you get it authenticated, i'll pay that price." so
she did. but you're right, i see dealers with a psa dna authenticated
nicholson on ebay for $400. and travolta for $100...that's
outrageous...and maybe $3 grand is unreasonable...but there are people
who buy this stuff at charity auctions signed by charles barkley for
$1000, or michael jordan for $5 grand (in fact, i had a customer who
wanted me to sell his jordan 16x20, and when i asked him what he
wanted for it, he said "if i could just get my money back." i asked
what that was and he said "$5 thousand at this alice cooper charity
auction." so where is the line drawn with value of an item...but yes,
i'd rather have an honest dealer...but i sell mostly wholesale, and
mostly on the net...so someone isn't going to get to know me to see if
they like me or want to deal with me...you don't and you don't even
know me.
and if you do deal with psa or any of the other companies on a larger
scale level, they do highly discount their service fees.

6)I want to know why you think "I heard this"
stories are bad.

most, "i heard this." or third party stories are so full of holes and
mostly bull**** (scuze my french). and in the case that was brought
before, it was "i heard this story about this guy who got his item
signed in person and psa dna wouldn't authenticate it."
this story is missing all the essential details. it doesn't say WHERE
the autograph was obtained...just that some guy says he got something
himself...and it's "a story about this guy." well, there's all sorts
of stories "about this guy." well, i don't know this guy, and you
don't know this guy, and the authenticator doesn't know this
guy...it's just a guy. and most of us are full of ****...people say
they got something themself. hell, i sold a michael jordan poster to
sammy "the bull" gravano, he hung it in his office and told his
friends he got it himself...doesn't mean that he did, he bought
it...and a lot of the really high proced sports stuff that i sold when
i was in phoenix went to high rollers with high office buildings who
wanted a shaq signed basketball, and told all his friends that he got
shaq himself last time shaq was in arizona. so, this guy, who got it
himself, more than likely bought it, but says he got it himself. maybe
it's out of vanity, but oftentimes it's just a story to get someone to
believe them...
shoot, there are plenty of guys that i stand next to, who are really
accused of selling forgeries, who say "f psa dna, i had a customer try
to send back $1000 worth of autograph because they said they couldn't
authenticate it." well, they probably sold some bad ****, that
customer sent it to psa and it didn't pass, and they want their money
back...is that really a problem...you got caught.

ok, i've talked enough...i hope there's some info that you can pull
out that will make you think that there's a lot more to this business
than really meets the eye.
mikeEEEE

On Oct 28, 7:34 pm, Sue H wrote:
but if you are taking a hit on feedback because of shipping, you need
to fix that.

I guess what I was referring to was the fact that sellers get hit on
shipping times and charges and that is something that is out of our
control. We can't make the PO ship faster and less expensively and
sometimes that's what we get graded on. I admit, at the beginning,
buyers were judging more harshly than they are now. I'm not sure if
it's because the nature of my auctions changed, or because the newness
of the feedback system is over.

Lastly, sellers out to be up front with their descriptions (new
is used a lot when they mean "like new" and stuff like that). Honesty
and the more information the better. On the buyer end, they should
add up all the costs before bidding. They should read auctions
thoroughly before bidding (I am guilty of not doing this all the time)
and they should be patient and reasonable if problems arise with
broken items etc. On Ebays end, they should standardize the shipping
like half.com does.

The reason for feedback is to keep the seller honest and no amount of
hand holding and rules is going to make every seller do that. I
believe that the reason eBay is successful is because the majority of
sellers are honest about listings. I for one, will NOT buy from anyone
that does not have a return policy. I also have things listed on
half.com and the standarized shipping does not always come out even.
Sometimes I pay more than I get reimbursed, sometimes I pay less. It
would be very hard to implement that on eBay because of the variety of
items being sold. I believe that would create a huge nightmare and a
lot of sellers leaving eBay.

Yes, there are sellers out there that jack up the shipping to cover
way more than their costs. But, obviously people are buying from them
or they wouldn't do it. Just don't buy from them! Do you go into a
store and say, what is the price of this without shipping and
handling? Do you think the items you buy from a store don't have that
cost attached somewhere down the line? A person makes the choice to
buy something from someone when you know before hand that it's going
to be high, and then complains about it?

My posts by the way did not talk about shipping. Not these past ones
anyway. So I don't know why you are questioning me on this...

I wasn't questioning you on shipping. I was talking more about the
feedback....


Good Lord, there are so many other ways to buy things in this world,
why spend your time in a place that makes you miserable?

It doesn't make me miserable to know I could be actually hurting
someone bad and helping some people. I don't know why in the world
you people on here are so inactive. All followers here and no
leaders. All take it up the ass people.... and all getting perturbed
at people who try to help. I just don't get it. No offense, but
instead of worrying about me trying to take out a minor criminal, why
are you sticking UP for them? It seems like that when you are trying
to stop me from something that has no affect on you at all. After
all, you can put my posts on killfile if you don't like it and nothing
I am doing hurts you (unless of course you are shill bidding or doing
something to take advantage of the general buying population). As a
matter of fact, maybe I could help rid ebay of one piece of scum who
might have ripped you off. So why get ****ed at my posts? Seems like
you are ... if I am wrong, I apologize, but if I want to warn people
of potential misdoers to save them a few headaches, I don't see the
harm. You can take the advice or leave it?

You don't really know that you're helping people by possibly turning
in innocent ones, right? I mean, they might not be, but what if they
are? You trying to stop someone that SEEMS to have no affect on me at
all might have because I am a seller as well and every person who has
a beef against any seller, warranted or not, has an effect on every
seller in the long run.

And no, I don't post on here very often. I just like to see what's
going on in the world but when I see that an injustice is being done
toward something I know a little bit about, I like to put a few cents
in just like you. And, really, did I seem ****ed off? It just seemed
to me that you are miserable about the whole eBay thing. I'm sorry if
I read that wrong.

I did read in the discussion area on eBay that buyers are getting
warned about items being fake. People just email them at random and
warn them that something they just bought is fake? I'm not saying it
was you by any means. I'm just saying that if there's a problem with
the seller, let eBay figure it out. Let the buyer do something about
it if it is. It's really none of our business until it's us, you know?
Karma comes around, trust me. I think you've done what you can in this
situation.

And excuse me, I am by far not a "take it up the ass" person and am
very offended by the sudden name calling and accusing me of possibly
being dishonest.

As far as you warning people about potential misdoers, that's fine
with me, but does it have to be pages worth of talking about it?
Really, that's what got me going. The going on and on about it. I was
fine with the first couple posts. It's like you said, "take it or
leave it".

It really brought to my attention that there are many more dishonest
people trying to sell on eBay than I originally thought. I am just a
seller selling estate items and have to educate myself on some things
as I go. I would have never thought that people would go to such
lengths to try to prove a fake autograph. This group has brought this
to my attention. Thank you!


I could, quite frankly, go on and on about the injustices and the
grief sellers and buyers, go through on eBay. And, believe me, there
is a lot! The bottom line is, is that I can still work and shop in my
jammies, not pay overhead, have a pretty flexible schedule, and be
home for my family. And, if I don't like it, I can go somewhere
else.........

Well you SHOULD bring up bad buyers and sellers here. Non paying
people, all that. You COULD help someone. Even if one person,
wouldn't it be worth it? Why are you not? Why are people afraid?
Are you someone who'd witness a crime on the street and be too afraid
to speak? Were you the kid in school who watched someone being picked
on and looked away? Watched someone kick and animal and say nothing?

I hope that you are generalizing and speaking to everyone about this.
You really don't know me.


It appears to me you think I am saying all sellers are bad and took
offense to it because you are a seller. I have no problem with sellers
who are honest. I've actually come on here before and given
recommendations of people who've been outstanding and still if someone
emails me with "do you know anyone who..." if I remember and know, I
will certainly recommend. I believe it's a two way street here. Out
the scammers and pump up the good. In a perfect world, good win out
and business will boom by word of mouth. Too bad it's not a perfect
world... because nobody likes to out evil; instead, they take it and
do nothing. Sad.~Renee'~

You are right about that, Sue. It is a two way street. And I didn't
mean to imply that I thought that you think that all sellers are bad.
I was just stating facts about some things that I know something
about. Some things that I felt I needed to speak up about instead of
taking it "in the ass". Maybe righting a wrong or misunderstanding
about something. And, instead, I seem to have opened up a whole new
can of worms.

~Renee'~

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:19:38 -0700, barefoot
wrote:

uhh sue...well, YOU can't get daniel radcliffe...if you did, it would
be like the fake orlando bloom on your website...
and as far as i know, mr. b...i don't think that ANY of the psa people
are allowed to sell their own wares...and i'm pretty sure it's
definitive and in their contracts that they can not...or else they'd
make a lot more money than they do...but i know that i've personally
discussed that with a few of them and they call up the conflict of
interest thing and that they can not sell, nor can they even sell
their old collections...so i don't think that is valid in any way...

First of all, there's no proof that's a fake Olando Bloom. It was at
the end of his signing, at a movie set before the explosion and his
stopping and the card was sent with the note that if Orlando is unable
to sign and someone is signing for him, please do me the favor of NOT
signing and just return the card UNSIGNED as the card is a rare card
and the value of the card would be totally gone if Orlando did not
personally sign. It's before the "OB" phase. It's POSSIBLE it's a
secretarial but you've no proof. Second, the other graph is a PP with
my name added for personalization. Not sure who did that. Arrived in
the same envelope. So I am NOT listening to your negativity.

As for Radcliffe, YOU have not gotten him either. We all know his
habits. Unless it's on set for visitors or on the Red Carpet only,
99% chance you are NOT getting his sig. So your claims needs to
looked at VERY carefully that that poster was legit. Same goes if
Watson is on that list and ESPECIALLY if Rowling is on it.

PSA may not be authenticating their own wares but it's done by
default. People assume their items are legit no matter. Mr. B is
right and made an EXCELLENT point. It's a conflict of interest PERIOD
to be both a dealer and an authenticator. No matter what you are
selling or authentication. You need to be one or the other but not
both to be taken seriously.


any poster is worth 3 grand...a real godfather should be worth 3
grand...but there are NONE...no one went to brando with a poster that
has some other on it already and got marlon brando on it as well. but
there's a lot of $9.99. posters (or $19.99)..which is a joke...
are you gonna tell me that my lord of the rings posters (with over 50
autographs on them) aren't worth over $3 grand?? i wouldn't take less
than 5 for them (i have one of each movie)...they are generally
considered the most completed posters in the world (i'm sure there's
some studio people that may have more people on theirs, but no one
knows they are in existance)...

No, not ANY poster is worth 3k. It's worth what people will pay for
it. But ONE time most likely. It's highly unlikely that that person
who paid that crazy amount will ever get their money back and you know
it. The market shrinks the more the prices are. Posters are also 1)
one of the top three items forged and 2) hard to care for items, which
though look impressive when framed, tend to wear worse than most
anything and a little handling can do much damage. So people who go
for posters want something to impress and may pay more, but it's
unlikely a lot of people will be vying for it for that price later on.
Sure, SOME things can go and remain high (Beatles or Elvis and Maybe
Brando) but you're talking about Harry Potter. 1) fad things aren't a
sure bet in the future. We don't know yet that Potter is legacy like
Star Wars. It's too early. 2) the main signers are kids who sign
free ttm or cheaply at cons and even if they don't sign at all, they
are young and historically speaking, they will eventually hit the
skids and sell their soul most likely. You should know that. These
signatures are not going to as tough ever; not like Star Wars, where
people didn't really start collecting hard core till the 90's really.
Sure, a few sigs here and there, but nothing like how collecting is
today. By then, a LOT of the celebs died etc. So Star Wars will
remain a better field (even though it's glutted a LOT right now and
the prices paid now will never be worth their value... only the older
sigs will like Sebastian Shaw, Richard Marquand etc).

how about a doors signed poster? are you sure there are NO POSTERS
worth 3 grand...and no, i don't believe that the customer will ever be
disappointed. you sure that some star wars posters aren't worth that?

As for the Doors, yes, that'll be worth a lot for a few more years or
maybe a couple decades (until they get so lost in history like the
celebs of the 30's and 40's are). The only reason for that is because
Morrison is dead and an icon. So as for that, it's not even in
comparison to Harry Potter... it'll never be. Now if there were cast
gifts signed by Richard Harris and JK and the three main kids, and
it's presentation, maybe. But run of the mill? Hell no.

i know that the harry potter kids are kids and they will be signing
for a while...but OTHER COLLECTORS WHO WATCHED ME GET THE AUTOGRAPHS

Um yeaaaah, which brings me to another point. If you are getting
stuff authenticated by people you continually promote, they are not
going to do you a negative. That's a given. You'd get ****ed and
they'd lose the promotion. Like Mr. B said, another conflict of
interest. BAD for the buyer of that poster I think.

offered me $250 a pop for daniel radcliffe on photos. just like the
day we all got brando on the set of don juan de marco, when the
bidding BETWEEN COLLECTORS got over $800 for a signed index card
because one guy said he was selling his...just days later...
so, to be honest..NO ONE KNOWS THE TRUE VALUE OF OUR AUTOGRAPHS, not
until someone is willing to buy them...
mike

Yeah, well, there's always a sucker born every minute; but that is not
the knowledgable general populice.