Exciting News

He needs to be watched to make sure he is knowledgable about what he's
doing and also for his motivations. So he should come forward.
However, I am for his efforts in that there is only one down side to
it for collectors (unless people who are selling legit stuff get
booted without true proof). If all the forgeries were WIPED out on
Ebay and we had a utopian society, we could be assured not go get
ripped off, we would have less to look through but let's remember too,
there would be less competition and so they could raise their prices.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 18:14:05 -0600, "Gummby3"
wrote:

Mike, I can see Auto Cop's point of view. He, as well as others in his
group, have stirred up a hornet's nest by pressing Ebay to, shocks of
shocks, police themselves and not just rake in the money from each and every
sale regardless of the contents. I would seriously think that AC's auctions
are being put under a microscope each time a new entry is put up for sale.
They don't want negative publicity by booting off forgers just to be conned
by a forger themselves (not saying AC is one in the least... just an
example). I don't see any reason for AC to "put his neck out" as he is
being watched by a hawk to make sure that he is up and up.

Who are all these people involved? No one here was asked? And what
makes them experts?

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:15:27 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Mike,

O.K., first you annoyed me, then you angered me, now you're just making me
laugh. You can say whatever you want about me, I simply don't care. Again,
my stuff on eBay is just as available for scrutiny as every other sellers.
If I were a forger and if I were not a recognized expert in my field and if
I had any question about what I was selling I'd be an idiot to push for what
I've been pushing for the last 5+ years. If you're too thick to understand
that, I can't help you.

The people involved in this effort are some of the most respected people in
the field (dealers and collectors). For someone like you to cast aspersions
on this group is quite humorous.

Again, if you can't support the effort because you can't get your curiousity
satisfied, then that's your prerogative.


"barefoot" wrote in message
roups.com...
again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

Again, Sue... you make great points. We have had many meetings with eBay
executives all throughout eBay - face to face, conference calls, email
communications, etc. I want to stress that this has been a very, very
long-term effort and we have put a lot of our own time and money into this.
This has not all happened on a lark. We have worked extensively with eBay,
we have always been polite and professional with them, they are very aware
of our credentials, who we are, etc. This will not ever be allowed to be a
"Wild West" type of thing where everyone is shooting at each other just to
eliminate their competition. This thing is being built slowly,
brick-by-brick, with much though and attention to detail. In fact, it's
still very much a work in progress. We're very excited, though, that it's
finally moving forward and that we're starting to see some results.


"Sue H" wrote in message
...
I do agree that Ebay shouldn't necessarily by one person's or one
businesses "word" ... especially when they have no degree in
authentication. We need to be a community and to do that, I also
agree names should not be withheld. People need to work together.

On the surface, it DOES appear that one can go to Ebay, say this and
that is fake it COULD seem that they are dealers trying to boost
their own name. Also, Ebay DOES need to check into them. For
example, if I email them, I would most certainly like them to research
me. See who I am, what I do, talk to me to find out my motivations. I
would welcome that.

Goodness often wins out, but usually after eons of being opressed.

On 4 Nov 2005 16:06:00 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

Let me try again to make this clear. Yes, this is a small group of highly
reputable people. But no, we are not necessarily the ones who will be making
the call. Our role has simply been to push eBay to start to deal with this
problem. That is why who "we" are is not particularly relevent, unless
you're one of the "bad guys". And, no one was "asked". This is something
we've all just done.

I hope this is getting though. Again, our role has simply been to press eBay
on this issue. We're not actually ending auctions, etc. Seriously, some of
you are just totally missing the point.


"Sue H" wrote in message
...
Who are all these people involved? No one here was asked? And what
makes them experts?

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:15:27 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Mike,

O.K., first you annoyed me, then you angered me, now you're just making me
laugh. You can say whatever you want about me, I simply don't care. Again,
my stuff on eBay is just as available for scrutiny as every other sellers.
If I were a forger and if I were not a recognized expert in my field and
if
I had any question about what I was selling I'd be an idiot to push for
what
I've been pushing for the last 5+ years. If you're too thick to understand
that, I can't help you.

The people involved in this effort are some of the most respected people
in
the field (dealers and collectors). For someone like you to cast
aspersions
on this group is quite humorous.

Again, if you can't support the effort because you can't get your
curiousity
satisfied, then that's your prerogative.


"barefoot" wrote in message
groups.com...
again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

I don't want to bust anyone's bubble too badly but, I'm going to.
First, autographs are not the only area that has a lot of fakes and
scams. Coins was one area where it was rampant. After years of
pleading and sending evidence Ebay agreed to partner with the American
Numismatic Association (ANA) and they were going to clean up the
fakes, etc. After several years of being in bed with ANA exactly no
auctions, except for the most blatant have been pulled. Every day
100s of fake coins are put up by Chinese sellers and these even have
coins that were never minted in the US and some of these are going for
big bucks to the uninformed.
Basically if we bellyache enough about an auction they will take a
look but say "we are just a venue and we aren't experts on this item".
You can look forward to more of the same. No matter what someone has
told you, it's not going to change.
If ebay has a big power seller making them a whole lot of money
selling fake autographs, unless they are pinned down by the FBI or
Secret Service, they are not going to cut into their income source.
Again, ebay is not an expert on anything.
Stop your celebrating and get to living in the real world.
Cliff





On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:33:47 -0500, Sue H wrote:

I do agree that Ebay shouldn't necessarily by one person's or one
businesses "word" ... especially when they have no degree in
authentication. We need to be a community and to do that, I also
agree names should not be withheld. People need to work together.

On the surface, it DOES appear that one can go to Ebay, say this and
that is fake it COULD seem that they are dealers trying to boost
their own name. Also, Ebay DOES need to check into them. For
example, if I email them, I would most certainly like them to research
me. See who I am, what I do, talk to me to find out my motivations. I
would welcome that.

Goodness often wins out, but usually after eons of being opressed.

On 4 Nov 2005 16:06:00 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

Bottom line is you are dreaming. Ebay teamed with the ANA, the
largest organization representing coin collectors in this country, and
nothing has changed. There is too much money for ebay to make. They
are now and always will be "a venue".
If you've gotten anything, you've gotten lipservice.
Cliff






On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:43:52 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Again, Sue... you make great points. We have had many meetings with eBay
executives all throughout eBay - face to face, conference calls, email
communications, etc. I want to stress that this has been a very, very
long-term effort and we have put a lot of our own time and money into this.
This has not all happened on a lark. We have worked extensively with eBay,
we have always been polite and professional with them, they are very aware
of our credentials, who we are, etc. This will not ever be allowed to be a
"Wild West" type of thing where everyone is shooting at each other just to
eliminate their competition. This thing is being built slowly,
brick-by-brick, with much though and attention to detail. In fact, it's
still very much a work in progress. We're very excited, though, that it's
finally moving forward and that we're starting to see some results.


"Sue H" wrote in message
.. .
I do agree that Ebay shouldn't necessarily by one person's or one
businesses "word" ... especially when they have no degree in
authentication. We need to be a community and to do that, I also
agree names should not be withheld. People need to work together.

On the surface, it DOES appear that one can go to Ebay, say this and
that is fake it COULD seem that they are dealers trying to boost
their own name. Also, Ebay DOES need to check into them. For
example, if I email them, I would most certainly like them to research
me. See who I am, what I do, talk to me to find out my motivations. I
would welcome that.

Goodness often wins out, but usually after eons of being opressed.

On 4 Nov 2005 16:06:00 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

Well, if true, it's an honorable thing and I'd love to know at some
point who you are, what you sell, and if Ebay does anything about it.

I would LOVE to give them thoughts myself. They are more seller
oriented than buyer oriented, so I'd love to see a little more
regulation and balance.

Also, I am all for elimating and even putting forgers away. Or suing
them for damages so that they can never afford to get back into the
business...


On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:43:52 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Again, Sue... you make great points. We have had many meetings with eBay
executives all throughout eBay - face to face, conference calls, email
communications, etc. I want to stress that this has been a very, very
long-term effort and we have put a lot of our own time and money into this.
This has not all happened on a lark. We have worked extensively with eBay,
we have always been polite and professional with them, they are very aware
of our credentials, who we are, etc. This will not ever be allowed to be a
"Wild West" type of thing where everyone is shooting at each other just to
eliminate their competition. This thing is being built slowly,
brick-by-brick, with much though and attention to detail. In fact, it's
still very much a work in progress. We're very excited, though, that it's
finally moving forward and that we're starting to see some results.


"Sue H" wrote in message
.. .
I do agree that Ebay shouldn't necessarily by one person's or one
businesses "word" ... especially when they have no degree in
authentication. We need to be a community and to do that, I also
agree names should not be withheld. People need to work together.

On the surface, it DOES appear that one can go to Ebay, say this and
that is fake it COULD seem that they are dealers trying to boost
their own name. Also, Ebay DOES need to check into them. For
example, if I email them, I would most certainly like them to research
me. See who I am, what I do, talk to me to find out my motivations. I
would welcome that.

Goodness often wins out, but usually after eons of being opressed.

On 4 Nov 2005 16:06:00 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

But to push them to end auction when they have no resident autograph
expert (I've not heard of that one yet though I know they do employ
some people to help with knockoffs and also some people who look for
things like obscenities and contraband etc), you must've prestented
yourself knowledable about the subject... So for them to end
auctions, they must be using "someone" to determine it's
forgeries....that's who we want to know about.


On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:49:07 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Let me try again to make this clear. Yes, this is a small group of highly
reputable people. But no, we are not necessarily the ones who will be making
the call. Our role has simply been to push eBay to start to deal with this
problem. That is why who "we" are is not particularly relevent, unless
you're one of the "bad guys". And, no one was "asked". This is something
we've all just done.

I hope this is getting though. Again, our role has simply been to press eBay
on this issue. We're not actually ending auctions, etc. Seriously, some of
you are just totally missing the point.


"Sue H" wrote in message
.. .
Who are all these people involved? No one here was asked? And what
makes them experts?

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:15:27 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Mike,

O.K., first you annoyed me, then you angered me, now you're just making me
laugh. You can say whatever you want about me, I simply don't care. Again,
my stuff on eBay is just as available for scrutiny as every other sellers.
If I were a forger and if I were not a recognized expert in my field and
if
I had any question about what I was selling I'd be an idiot to push for
what
I've been pushing for the last 5+ years. If you're too thick to understand
that, I can't help you.

The people involved in this effort are some of the most respected people
in
the field (dealers and collectors). For someone like you to cast
aspersions
on this group is quite humorous.

Again, if you can't support the effort because you can't get your
curiousity
satisfied, then that's your prerogative.


"barefoot" wrote in message
egroups.com...
again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

Thanks for your input, Cliff, but it's already gone far beyond lipservice.


"Cliff" wrote in message
...
Bottom line is you are dreaming. Ebay teamed with the ANA, the
largest organization representing coin collectors in this country, and
nothing has changed. There is too much money for ebay to make. They
are now and always will be "a venue".
If you've gotten anything, you've gotten lipservice.
Cliff






On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:43:52 GMT, "Auto Cop"
wrote:

Again, Sue... you make great points. We have had many meetings with eBay
executives all throughout eBay - face to face, conference calls, email
communications, etc. I want to stress that this has been a very, very
long-term effort and we have put a lot of our own time and money into
this.
This has not all happened on a lark. We have worked extensively with eBay,
we have always been polite and professional with them, they are very aware
of our credentials, who we are, etc. This will not ever be allowed to be a
"Wild West" type of thing where everyone is shooting at each other just to
eliminate their competition. This thing is being built slowly,
brick-by-brick, with much though and attention to detail. In fact, it's
still very much a work in progress. We're very excited, though, that it's
finally moving forward and that we're starting to see some results.


"Sue H" wrote in message
. ..
I do agree that Ebay shouldn't necessarily by one person's or one
businesses "word" ... especially when they have no degree in
authentication. We need to be a community and to do that, I also
agree names should not be withheld. People need to work together.

On the surface, it DOES appear that one can go to Ebay, say this and
that is fake it COULD seem that they are dealers trying to boost
their own name. Also, Ebay DOES need to check into them. For
example, if I email them, I would most certainly like them to research
me. See who I am, what I do, talk to me to find out my motivations. I
would welcome that.

Goodness often wins out, but usually after eons of being opressed.

On 4 Nov 2005 16:06:00 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike

Cliff, I am disappointed in you. Is it better to even rid the
community of even ONE mass dealer who deals in fakes?

I am cynical of the motivations and questionable education of the
outters as one should always be concerned; BUT.... to NOT do nothing
is what most people do here. So with that said, I applaud them
(providing all motivations are pure and the poeple they are after are
indeed frauds). Better to try and fail than sit passively and watch
your fellow collectors get ripped off!


On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:53:19 -0500, Cliff
wrote:

I don't want to bust anyone's bubble too badly but, I'm going to.
First, autographs are not the only area that has a lot of fakes and
scams. Coins was one area where it was rampant. After years of
pleading and sending evidence Ebay agreed to partner with the American
Numismatic Association (ANA) and they were going to clean up the
fakes, etc. After several years of being in bed with ANA exactly no
auctions, except for the most blatant have been pulled. Every day
100s of fake coins are put up by Chinese sellers and these even have
coins that were never minted in the US and some of these are going for
big bucks to the uninformed.
Basically if we bellyache enough about an auction they will take a
look but say "we are just a venue and we aren't experts on this item".
You can look forward to more of the same. No matter what someone has
told you, it's not going to change.
If ebay has a big power seller making them a whole lot of money
selling fake autographs, unless they are pinned down by the FBI or
Secret Service, they are not going to cut into their income source.
Again, ebay is not an expert on anything.
Stop your celebrating and get to living in the real world.
Cliff





On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 19:33:47 -0500, Sue H wrote:

I do agree that Ebay shouldn't necessarily by one person's or one
businesses "word" ... especially when they have no degree in
authentication. We need to be a community and to do that, I also
agree names should not be withheld. People need to work together.

On the surface, it DOES appear that one can go to Ebay, say this and
that is fake it COULD seem that they are dealers trying to boost
their own name. Also, Ebay DOES need to check into them. For
example, if I email them, I would most certainly like them to research
me. See who I am, what I do, talk to me to find out my motivations. I
would welcome that.

Goodness often wins out, but usually after eons of being opressed.

On 4 Nov 2005 16:06:00 -0800, "barefoot"
wrote:

again, i'm not discounting his measures...in fact, he's preaching to
the choir on this one...all i'm saying is that he should let HIS stuff
be stood up and accounted for...
there are plenty of people out there seing fake stuff that don't know
it, and fight hard like he's claiming to do...only to be unknowingly
selling bad stuff...his reluctance to state his seller name shows his
fear that HE may be brought out too...
and yes, i was suspended for unscrupuous behavior. but have been deemed
worthy by the ewbay community once again. and i sign my name to
everything, and i let anyone know exactly what i am selling...
and i wish that by people pulling bad stuff off ebay would actually
help (especially during the holidays since little kids buy autographs
for dad and dad buys that michael vick auto his kid wants and neither
knows they are buying fake stuff) that's besides the point...LET US
KNOW WHO YOU ARE, JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED!
mike