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eBay Bids Revealed!
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping
in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of something I saw happen a while ago in an auction. Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max bid. Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction # to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway): Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1. Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not known to other bidders. Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #2's maximum bid). High bid for the item now stands at $26.01. Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #1's maximum). High bid for the item now stands at $35.51. Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason). (If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?" Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word for it, the following is what happened) After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture. What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is). Just a ponderance for you to consider. Steve Buy the book before the coin don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it! It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf (remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail) |
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#2
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Steve Ruud wrote:
The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of something I saw happen a while ago in an auction. Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max bid. I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I snipe. Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction # to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway): Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1. Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not known to other bidders. Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #2's maximum bid). High bid for the item now stands at $26.01. Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #1's maximum). High bid for the item now stands at $35.51. Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason). (If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?" Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word for it, the following is what happened) After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture. This should not have happened, and if it did, it must have been a glitch in the matrix. After Bidder #3 cancels, the high bid should have reverted to $26.01, one increment above the underbidder. What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is). This is known as bid shielding if done by buyers, and used to be used to defraud sellers. Since eBay no longer allows bid retractions in the last 12 hours of the auction, the effectiveness of bid shielding has been greatly diminished. -- Bob |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote: Steve Ruud wrote: The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of something I saw happen a while ago in an auction. Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max bid. I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I snipe. Me too. I hate looking at the bid history and seeing the same bidder put in 17 bids all about 3 seconds apart and all going up by 1 bid increment. Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction # to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway): Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1. Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not known to other bidders. Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #2's maximum bid). High bid for the item now stands at $26.01. Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #1's maximum). High bid for the item now stands at $35.51. Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason). (If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?" Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word for it, the following is what happened) After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture. This should not have happened, and if it did, it must have been a glitch in the matrix. After Bidder #3 cancels, the high bid should have reverted to $26.01, one increment above the underbidder. Come to think about it... I did see a black cat walk by and then, a second later saw the same black cat! But I swear to you this is what happened! What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is). This is known as bid shielding if done by buyers, and used to be used to defraud sellers. Since eBay no longer allows bid retractions in the last 12 hours of the auction, the effectiveness of bid shielding has been greatly diminished. True. I've only canceled 1 bid in my 7 year 11 month e-bay history so I'm not as "up" on the cancellation procedures as I should be. It was interesting to see the above ploy in action though. I wonder if the Machines have corrected the mistake by now. Steve Buy the book before the coin don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it! It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf (remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail) |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio"
wrote: Steve Ruud wrote: The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of something I saw happen a while ago in an auction. Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max bid. I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I snipe. These bidders nibble at my nerves, too. They usually have no or little feedback, so I've wondered if they don't understand bidding or if someone is trying to find my max. They are the reason I seldom put in my max bid until the end of the auction. Otherwise I feel like I'm bidding against myself. I checked my records to see if the new cancelled bid method would work. I cancelled a bid one time for someone who was having financial problems. The bid was at $300+ when I cancelled. The bids realigned themselves to about $200 as if he had never bid at all. (Fortunately, he contacted me two days before the auction's end, so the auction was able to recover.) I guess that this is the same thing that would happen if a buyer retracted a bid. As you wrote, a bid can't be retracted by the buyer in the last hours of the auction. A seller can cancel the bid, but that would look a bit suspicious in the last few minutes. The only one who might suffer is the seller, since the higher bid might discourage the last minute scramble for the coin. And if he/she was caught, NARU would be the new seller name. Anita |
#5
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Steve Ruud wrote: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio" wrote: Steve Ruud wrote: The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of something I saw happen a while ago in an auction. Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max bid. I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I snipe. Me too. I hate looking at the bid history and seeing the same bidder put in 17 bids all about 3 seconds apart and all going up by 1 bid increment. Here's what I saw happen, which also revealed the bidder's maximum bid before the auction was over (unfortunately, I don't have an auction # to cite, plus it's been over for more than 90 days now anyway): Let's assume the item's current high bid is $25.01 by Bidder #1. Bidder #1's maximum bid is $35.01. The maximum bid is of course not known to other bidders. Bidder #2 comes along and bids $25.51. The result of this bid is to put Bidder #1's bid up to $26.01 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #2's maximum bid). High bid for the item now stands at $26.01. Bidder #3 comes along and enters a maximum bid of $45.01. THe result of this bid is to put Bidder #3's bid up to $35.51 (1 bid increment of $.50 over Bidder #1's maximum). High bid for the item now stands at $35.51. Bidder #3 then *cancels* his bid (for whatever "valid" eBay reason). (If I had an acution # to reference, I'd have started a contest and asked "What is the new high bid for the item after the cancellation?" Since I can't prove the answer, you're going to have to take my word for it, the following is what happened) After Bidder #3 cancels their bid, the high bid went to $35.01, the maximum bid that Bidder #1 entered. Note, this is *NOT* the bid that showed ($26.01) before bidder #3 entered the picture. This should not have happened, and if it did, it must have been a glitch in the matrix. After Bidder #3 cancels, the high bid should have reverted to $26.01, one increment above the underbidder. Come to think about it... I did see a black cat walk by and then, a second later saw the same black cat! But I swear to you this is what happened! What this means is that if you wanted to find someone's maximum bid on an item, you could bid $1,000,000 for that item, the new high bid will be one increment over the other bidder's maximum. You then cancel your $1,000,000 bid and the former high bidder has now been pushed up to his maximum. Of course, sellers could setup shill accounts and do the same thing to their auctions thus maximizing their sale price every time (until eBay got wind of it and decided to act that is). This is known as bid shielding if done by buyers, and used to be used to defraud sellers. Since eBay no longer allows bid retractions in the last 12 hours of the auction, the effectiveness of bid shielding has been greatly diminished. True. I've only canceled 1 bid in my 7 year 11 month e-bay history so I'm not as "up" on the cancellation procedures as I should be. It was interesting to see the above ploy in action though. I wonder if the Machines have corrected the mistake by now. Steve Buy the book before the coin don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it! It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf (remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail) I once tried to cancel a bid in the last few hours but ebay wouldn't let me. I had a good reason - it was for an obsolete note that I said was from Virginia but I found out was really from New York. Since I couldn't cancel it I just let it run the course and explained to the high bidder what the problem was and said I wouldn't hold him to the sale since it was my fault. He backed out and that was fine with me. |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:25:31 GMT, Anita wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:57:32 -0800, "Bob Flaminio" wrote: Steve Ruud wrote: The recent discussion of a seller offering an incentive (free shipping in this case) for early high bids for some reason sparked a memory of something I saw happen a while ago in an auction. Of course, eBay says they only show the current high bid, not the bidder's maximum bid. And for the most part this is true. We've all seen cases where someone bids only the minimum increment higher, only to discover they're still outbid. The bidder keeps repeating this until either they become the high bidder (after perhaps many bids) or they give up and search for a cheaper item elsewhere. If they become the high bidder, obviously they found out the previous bidder's max bid. I call these nimrods "nibblers". They're one of the main reasons I snipe. These bidders nibble at my nerves, too. They usually have no or little feedback, so I've wondered if they don't understand bidding or if someone is trying to find my max. They are the reason I seldom put in my max bid until the end of the auction. Otherwise I feel like I'm bidding against myself. I checked my records to see if the new cancelled bid method would work. I cancelled a bid one time for someone who was having financial problems. The bid was at $300+ when I cancelled. The bids realigned themselves to about $200 as if he had never bid at all. (Fortunately, he contacted me two days before the auction's end, so the auction was able to recover.) I guess that this is the same thing that would happen if a buyer retracted a bid. As you wrote, a bid can't be retracted by the buyer in the last hours of the auction. A seller can cancel the bid, but that would look a bit suspicious in the last few minutes. The only one who might suffer is the seller, since the higher bid might discourage the last minute scramble for the coin. And if he/she was caught, NARU would be the new seller name. Anita Well, very interesting post. I've never cancelled any of my bids. I've cancelled a few from bidders before i've taken an auction down but that was always because I made a mistake in the listing. As for bidding, sometimes I nibble, sometimes I don't. The reason? Who knows. I enter my bid and I'm not the high bidder, I may put two or three more bids in working my way up. If I'm high bidder at that point I put in a higher bid to make more of a cushion above the previous high bidder. Actually I'll have to say that some would consider me a rude bidder but I'm not really concerned as to how others bid, I bid as I please and win a lot more of what I want than I don't win. When I win and the seller takes paypal I'll usually pay within seconds of winning. If I have to wait for a total, I'll pay that within seconds of getting the e-mail. If I have to pay by check I mail it out within the hour and if it takes a money order I will that as soon as the post office opens. When I sell and get paid I post positive feedback as soon as the check, money order, etc. comes in. I don't hold checks unless they are starter checks that aren't pre-printed or if they are for an inordinately large amount. I also ship the day I receive payment if possible and if not, it goes out the next day. I have fun, I get stuff I want, I sell stuff I don't want and it helps to pass the time. If someone has a problem with the way I play the game, I guess they can always block me. It really doesn't hurt my feelings that bad, but if I buy from you once, I always come back to check your listings again, and there are a handful of sellers that I buy from consistently. So, maybe if you over look some of my quirks you can sell more stuff Cliff |
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