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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
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#2
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
BTW it is 44mm x 33mm
"rod222" wrote in message pond.com... A large format 4k Can anyone ID this monster? http://cjoint.com/data/0cvpsAUAPJF.htm |
#3
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
A puzzle indeed. The 4 kop rose of 1889 was issued in Scoitt type
A8. Thus it would be the same size as the 10 kop shown to the left. The size of your 4 kop (right) would indicate Scott type A9. However, from what I can find, type A9 was only used for the 1 ruble value and was printed in two colours. Blair |
#4
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
Am 21.02.2011 15:19, schrieb rod222:
A large format 4k Can anyone ID this monster? http://cjoint.com/data/0cvpsAUAPJF.htm Sorry, I can't I'm afraid. Looked in my normal and my specialized catalogue - nothing! The stamp looks like the others at that time apart from the measure. Even my russian catalogue gave no hint - though I am not very firm with the russian language.:-) Peter |
#5
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
Thanks Gentlemen, No one can crack this one. Pmk appears to be Yalta ...crimea? If I find a solution I'll post. "Peter Buder" wrote in message ... Am 21.02.2011 15:19, schrieb rod222: A large format 4k Can anyone ID this monster? http://cjoint.com/data/0cvpsAUAPJF.htm Sorry, I can't I'm afraid. Looked in my normal and my specialized catalogue - nothing! The stamp looks like the others at that time apart from the measure. Even my russian catalogue gave no hint - though I am not very firm with the russian language.:-) Peter |
#6
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
A backside view of the owner's stamp just in case if offers a clue. He has since washed it off. http://cjoint.com/data/0cwcrlg8fEh.htm |
#7
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
On Feb 21, 8:18*pm, "rod222" wrote:
A backside view of the owner's stamp just in case if offers a clue. He has since washed it off. http://cjoint.com/data/0cwcrlg8fEh.htm Rod--sorry, no direct help, but experience with Germanic, French, and Belgian cancellations makes me doubt that the cancel is from Yalta. If "Yalta" is written with five Cyrillic characters, and if Russian cancels are similar to those I am familiar with from western Europe, the name will be centered at the the top. But the top of the cancel clearly is between the Cyrillic "L" and "T" rather than on the "L" itself. Note maybe Yalta in Russian has only four characters. And maybe this cancellation is not designed with a centered name/word. But there certainly doesn't seem to be room enough for two characters between the Russian L and the star at the bottom. Guessing that Russian dates are day/month/year, I'd take the cancel date as 2 June, 1915. If real, that al least puts a limit on the issue date. Secondly |
#8
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
Thank you Stan,
I have logged your response, Everyone is stumped so far, I don't have a great knowledge of Russia, I am awaiting a closer scan, if it is a prank the background filagree work should be larger corresponding to the normal stamp. No scan forthcoming as yet "Stan" wrote in message ... On Feb 21, 8:18 pm, "rod222" wrote: A backside view of the owner's stamp just in case if offers a clue. He has since washed it off. http://cjoint.com/data/0cwcrlg8fEh.htm Rod--sorry, no direct help, but experience with Germanic, French, and Belgian cancellations makes me doubt that the cancel is from Yalta. If "Yalta" is written with five Cyrillic characters, and if Russian cancels are similar to those I am familiar with from western Europe, the name will be centered at the the top. But the top of the cancel clearly is between the Cyrillic "L" and "T" rather than on the "L" itself. Note maybe Yalta in Russian has only four characters. And maybe this cancellation is not designed with a centered name/word. But there certainly doesn't seem to be room enough for two characters between the Russian L and the star at the bottom. Guessing that Russian dates are day/month/year, I'd take the cancel date as 2 June, 1915. If real, that al least puts a limit on the issue date. Secondly |
#9
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
On Feb 22, 8:32*am, "rod222" wrote:
Thank you Stan, I have logged your response, Everyone is stumped so far, I don't have a great knowledge of Russia, I am awaiting a closer scan, if it is a prank the background filagree work should be larger corresponding to the normal stamp. No scan forthcoming as yet "Stan" wrote in message ... On Feb 21, 8:18 pm, "rod222" wrote: A backside view of the owner's stamp just in case if offers a clue. He has since washed it off. http://cjoint.com/data/0cwcrlg8fEh.htm Rod--sorry, no direct help, but experience with Germanic, French, and Belgian cancellations makes me doubt that the cancel is from Yalta. If "Yalta" is written with five Cyrillic characters, and if Russian cancels are similar to those I am familiar with from western Europe, the name will be centered at the the top. *But the top of the cancel clearly is between the Cyrillic "L" and "T" rather than on the "L" itself. *Note maybe Yalta in Russian has only four characters. *And maybe this cancellation is not designed with a centered name/word. But there certainly doesn't seem to be room enough for two characters between the Russian L and the star at the bottom. Guessing that Russian dates are day/month/year, I'd take the cancel date as 2 June, 1915. *If real, that al least puts a limit on the issue date. Rod--the original image had 24 perforation teeth along the vertical edge. My copy of the large-format 1 ruble issue of this design has 21. My copy of the small format 4 kopeck has 18. Scott lists the perforation of this issue as 14 to 15 and compound for the small- format and 13 1/2 for the 1 ruble. This suggests that the image is not a blow-up of the small format 4 kopeck because there are too many perf teeth (24 rather than 18). It also suggests that the image is perforated more than 13 1/2 as it has more perf teeth than my 1 ruble (24 rather than 21), and my 1 ruble does indeed match 13 1/2 on a perf gauge. If the arithmetic works, the image should be perforated about (13.5x24)/21 or about 15 1/2. My 4 kopeck is pert 15, so it has the maximum number of perf teeth allowed by Scott's listing, so there should be no chance that a higher perf 4 kopeck could be the source of the image. All of the above, of course, assumes there are no other perf options than given in Scott. That assumption could be wrong, but that would still make the image a prank, not a real item. And the 15 1/2 perf calculated for the image also raises questions about the genuineness of the stamp in the image. There always is the possibility that the cancel woujld give the explanation, such as being a tax cancel suggesting the stamp is a tax stamp, etc. If the simplest explanation is usually right, the "stamp" in the image is not a genuine postage stamp. Stan |
#10
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Russia : Large Format 4 kopek ID please:
On Feb 22, 9:54*am, Stan wrote:
On Feb 22, 8:32*am, "rod222" wrote: Thank you Stan, I have logged your response, Everyone is stumped so far, I don't have a great knowledge of Russia, I am awaiting a closer scan, if it is a prank the background filagree work should be larger corresponding to the normal stamp. No scan forthcoming as yet "Stan" wrote in message .... On Feb 21, 8:18 pm, "rod222" wrote: A backside view of the owner's stamp just in case if offers a clue. He has since washed it off. http://cjoint.com/data/0cwcrlg8fEh.htm Rod--sorry, no direct help, but experience with Germanic, French, and Belgian cancellations makes me doubt that the cancel is from Yalta. If "Yalta" is written with five Cyrillic characters, and if Russian cancels are similar to those I am familiar with from western Europe, the name will be centered at the the top. *But the top of the cancel clearly is between the Cyrillic "L" and "T" rather than on the "L" itself. *Note maybe Yalta in Russian has only four characters. *And maybe this cancellation is not designed with a centered name/word. But there certainly doesn't seem to be room enough for two characters between the Russian L and the star at the bottom. Guessing that Russian dates are day/month/year, I'd take the cancel date as 2 June, 1915. *If real, that al least puts a limit on the issue date. Rod--the original image had 24 perforation teeth along the vertical edge. *My copy of the large-format 1 ruble issue of this design has 21. *My copy of the small format 4 kopeck has 18. *Scott lists the perforation of this issue as 14 to 15 and compound for the small- format and 13 1/2 for the 1 ruble. *This suggests that the image is not a blow-up of the small format 4 kopeck because there are too many perf teeth (24 rather than 18). *It also suggests that the image is perforated more than 13 1/2 as it has more perf teeth than my 1 ruble (24 rather than 21), and my 1 ruble does indeed match 13 1/2 on a perf gauge. *If the arithmetic works, the image should be perforated about (13.5x24)/21 or about 15 1/2. My 4 kopeck is pert 15, so it has the maximum number of perf teeth allowed by Scott's listing, so there should be no chance that a higher perf 4 kopeck could be the source of the image. All of the above, of course, assumes there are no other perf options than given in Scott. *That assumption could be wrong, but that would still make the image a prank, not a real item. *And the 15 1/2 perf calculated for the image also raises questions about the genuineness of the stamp in the image. There always is the possibility that the cancel woujld give the explanation, such as being a tax cancel suggesting the stamp is a tax stamp, etc. If the simplest explanation is usually right, the "stamp" in the image is not a genuine postage stamp. Stan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Further to Stan's comments, I compared the diameter size of the two cancellations. If the 4 kop stamp had been enlarged AFTER cancellation, the cancel would have been much bigger. By the way, In Russian, YALTA has FOUR letters. ЯЛТА (hope it reproduces correctly) [If not, it looks like a backwards R, cyrillic L, T and A. ] Blair |
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