rules regarding bid cancellation

someone cancelled a bid because they got an offer too good to pass up.
What are the Ebay rules? From what I remembered it's grounds to be
kicked off is it not?

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:29 -0500, dahoov2 wrote:

someone cancelled a bid because they got an offer too good to pass up.
What are the Ebay rules? From what I remembered it's grounds to be
kicked off is it not?


This is what ebay has to say on the subject:

Bid Retractions
Bid carefully - retractions are rarely allowed

When you are the winning bidder, you are obligated to pay the
high-bid price for the item. As a rule, retracting bids is not allowed
on eBay.

Remember that all bids on eBay are binding, except:
- Sales of real estate or businesses (see the Non-Binding Bid Policy)

- Sales of items that are prohibited by law or by eBay's User
Agreement


Exceptional Circumstances Only

There are, however, a few exceptional circumstances under which you
may retract a bid. These are if:

- You accidentally enter the wrong bid amount. For instance, you bid
$99.50 instead of $9.95.

Note: If this occurs, re-enter the correct bid amount immediately
after you retract your bid. If you do not place another bid, the
retraction will be in violation of eBay's policy and could result in
your suspension.

- The description of an item you have bid on has changed
significantly.

- You can't reach the seller. This means that you tried calling the
seller but his or her phone number doesn't work, or you have tried
emailing a message to the seller and it comes back undeliverable.


Timing Matters

There are special rules about retracting bids, depending on when you
originally placed the bid.

If you place a bid before the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract that bid before that last 12-hours, if your situation meets
the above description of exceptional circumstances. You will not be
allowed to retract that bid during the last 12-hours of the listing.

When you retract a bid before the last 12 hours of a listing: you will
eliminate all bids you have placed on that item. If you are correcting
a bidding error, you will have to bid again.

If you place a bid during the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract the bid only within one hour after placing the bid (and if
your situation meets eBay's exceptional circumstances description).

When you retract a bid within the last 12 hours of the listing: You
will eliminate only the most recent bid you placed. Bids you placed
prior to the last 12 hours will not be retracted.

If you are not allowed to retract your bid during the last 12-hours of
the listing, you may contact the seller to request that your bid be
canceled. The seller will have the discretion whether to cancel your
bid.


Accountability

Your total number of bid retractions in the past six months is
displayed in your feedback profile.

eBay will thoroughly investigate bid retractions. Abuse of this
feature may result in the suspension of your account. Bids retracted
within the last 24 hours of listing can be viewed as bid shielding,
which is a serious violation of our policy.
--
http://www.DragonGraphs.com

Well it doesn't say anything here about side deals, but it's gotta be
a violation. I know the 12 hour rule doesn't apply so sad he did
this... I wasn't bidding anyway, but it really isn't fair to other
bidders who wanted the item. I understand they got a good trade
offer, but the seller didn't give opportunity to the other bidders to
see if they could match that. Also, if you want to trade, why the
heck sell on Ebay then... sheesh.

I know the seller. Good guy but I hate seeing greed rearing its ugly
head. Also, I am pretty sure I know who the proposer is and it's like
the 3rd time in recent times that they've contacted a seller and made
a deal and the bid was retracted on items I bid on. They don't want
me to get it that's for sure... It's all sickening though how people
are THAT obsessed and greedy! GET OVER IT. It's just a signature on
paper!

What gets me is not that the signature is something I can't have, but
that people are this insane!


On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:24:50 -0500, Chris Polubinski
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:29 -0500, dahoov2 wrote:

someone cancelled a bid because they got an offer too good to pass up.
What are the Ebay rules? From what I remembered it's grounds to be
kicked off is it not?


This is what ebay has to say on the subject:

Bid Retractions
Bid carefully - retractions are rarely allowed

When you are the winning bidder, you are obligated to pay the
high-bid price for the item. As a rule, retracting bids is not allowed
on eBay.

Remember that all bids on eBay are binding, except:
- Sales of real estate or businesses (see the Non-Binding Bid Policy)

- Sales of items that are prohibited by law or by eBay's User
Agreement


Exceptional Circumstances Only

There are, however, a few exceptional circumstances under which you
may retract a bid. These are if:

- You accidentally enter the wrong bid amount. For instance, you bid
$99.50 instead of $9.95.

Note: If this occurs, re-enter the correct bid amount immediately
after you retract your bid. If you do not place another bid, the
retraction will be in violation of eBay's policy and could result in
your suspension.

- The description of an item you have bid on has changed
significantly.

- You can't reach the seller. This means that you tried calling the
seller but his or her phone number doesn't work, or you have tried
emailing a message to the seller and it comes back undeliverable.


Timing Matters

There are special rules about retracting bids, depending on when you
originally placed the bid.

If you place a bid before the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract that bid before that last 12-hours, if your situation meets
the above description of exceptional circumstances. You will not be
allowed to retract that bid during the last 12-hours of the listing.

When you retract a bid before the last 12 hours of a listing: you will
eliminate all bids you have placed on that item. If you are correcting
a bidding error, you will have to bid again.

If you place a bid during the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract the bid only within one hour after placing the bid (and if
your situation meets eBay's exceptional circumstances description).

When you retract a bid within the last 12 hours of the listing: You
will eliminate only the most recent bid you placed. Bids you placed
prior to the last 12 hours will not be retracted.

If you are not allowed to retract your bid during the last 12-hours of
the listing, you may contact the seller to request that your bid be
canceled. The seller will have the discretion whether to cancel your
bid.


Accountability

Your total number of bid retractions in the past six months is
displayed in your feedback profile.

eBay will thoroughly investigate bid retractions. Abuse of this
feature may result in the suspension of your account. Bids retracted
within the last 24 hours of listing can be viewed as bid shielding,
which is a serious violation of our policy.

I may have quoted you the wrong section. I interpreted your original
message to mena that a bid was retracted by a bidder. But, if I
understand you correctly, all bids were cancelled by the seller and
the auction was ended early. If so, the following now apply:

Cancel Bids

In general, sellers should not cancel bids on their auctions.

- Legitimate reasons to cancel a bid include:
- A bidder contacts you to back out of the bid.
- You cannot verify the identity of the bidder after trying all
reasonable means of contact.


Ending Your Listing Early

Sometimes something goes wrong and you can't complete your listing as
planned. If needed, you can choose to end your listing before the
scheduled date. If there are bids on your item, you can cancel them.

Reasons for ending listings early include:
1. The item is no longer available for sale.
2. There was an error in the starting price or reserve amount.
3. There was an error in the listing.
4. The item was lost or broken.


The part that concerns you is #1 under ending an auction early. It's
a grey area. "The item is no longer for sale... because it has been
traded away or sold for a great deal of cash in an outside deal."
It's a vague statement that covers a multitude of sins.

As we have seen time and again, ebay exists to benefit the sellers,
not the buyers. Find an obvious forgery and notify the seller, you're
harrassing them. Buy an obvious forgery and contact ebay: you
should've been more careful about what you bid on.

Also note that neither of these actions contain any potential
penalties for the seller. They can cancel bids and end auctions at a
whim. Buyers can retract bids and have their accounts disabled.

And, the reason why all this happens is because the sellers pay money
to ebay in the form of auction fees. Buyers pay nothing. And thus,
ebay protects themselves by protecting their income.

The best advice I can offer you is best stated by you: Get over it.
It's just a signature on paper. It's not really insane to accept a
better offer when it's presented to you. It happens all the time.

Just curious, if you weren't bidding on it, how do you know that the
other bidders WEREN'T given an opportunity to match the offer?



On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:35:26 -0500, dahoov2 wrote:

Well it doesn't say anything here about side deals, but it's gotta be
a violation. I know the 12 hour rule doesn't apply so sad he did
this... I wasn't bidding anyway, but it really isn't fair to other
bidders who wanted the item. I understand they got a good trade
offer, but the seller didn't give opportunity to the other bidders to
see if they could match that. Also, if you want to trade, why the
heck sell on Ebay then... sheesh.

I know the seller. Good guy but I hate seeing greed rearing its ugly
head. Also, I am pretty sure I know who the proposer is and it's like
the 3rd time in recent times that they've contacted a seller and made
a deal and the bid was retracted on items I bid on. They don't want
me to get it that's for sure... It's all sickening though how people
are THAT obsessed and greedy! GET OVER IT. It's just a signature on
paper!

What gets me is not that the signature is something I can't have, but
that people are this insane!


On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:24:50 -0500, Chris Polubinski
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:29 -0500, dahoov2 wrote:

someone cancelled a bid because they got an offer too good to pass up.
What are the Ebay rules? From what I remembered it's grounds to be
kicked off is it not?


This is what ebay has to say on the subject:

Bid Retractions
Bid carefully - retractions are rarely allowed

When you are the winning bidder, you are obligated to pay the
high-bid price for the item. As a rule, retracting bids is not allowed
on eBay.

Remember that all bids on eBay are binding, except:
- Sales of real estate or businesses (see the Non-Binding Bid Policy)

- Sales of items that are prohibited by law or by eBay's User
Agreement


Exceptional Circumstances Only

There are, however, a few exceptional circumstances under which you
may retract a bid. These are if:

- You accidentally enter the wrong bid amount. For instance, you bid
$99.50 instead of $9.95.

Note: If this occurs, re-enter the correct bid amount immediately
after you retract your bid. If you do not place another bid, the
retraction will be in violation of eBay's policy and could result in
your suspension.

- The description of an item you have bid on has changed
significantly.

- You can't reach the seller. This means that you tried calling the
seller but his or her phone number doesn't work, or you have tried
emailing a message to the seller and it comes back undeliverable.


Timing Matters

There are special rules about retracting bids, depending on when you
originally placed the bid.

If you place a bid before the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract that bid before that last 12-hours, if your situation meets
the above description of exceptional circumstances. You will not be
allowed to retract that bid during the last 12-hours of the listing.

When you retract a bid before the last 12 hours of a listing: you will
eliminate all bids you have placed on that item. If you are correcting
a bidding error, you will have to bid again.

If you place a bid during the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract the bid only within one hour after placing the bid (and if
your situation meets eBay's exceptional circumstances description).

When you retract a bid within the last 12 hours of the listing: You
will eliminate only the most recent bid you placed. Bids you placed
prior to the last 12 hours will not be retracted.

If you are not allowed to retract your bid during the last 12-hours of
the listing, you may contact the seller to request that your bid be
canceled. The seller will have the discretion whether to cancel your
bid.


Accountability

Your total number of bid retractions in the past six months is
displayed in your feedback profile.

eBay will thoroughly investigate bid retractions. Abuse of this
feature may result in the suspension of your account. Bids retracted
within the last 24 hours of listing can be viewed as bid shielding,
which is a serious violation of our policy.

--
http://www.DragonGraphs.com

I am over it.... it just is horrible greed in this hobby and that
concerns me as it's running rampant.

Not that I should have to explain, but here goes:
I bid on the item and then after it reached an amount I didn't watch
it anymore but I got an email that said an auction I bid on was
cencelled... I went to it to see what it was (am bidding/watching/have
bid on items.... and saw it was that item. I was wondering why he'd
cancelled it... I thought maybe he found out it wasn't right.

How do I know the others didn't get a chance? Well I know the parties
involved. Also, the seller roped ME INTO HIS problem when he wrote my
name on the retraction and said "Sorry Sue, got a better offer". For
one, I did not make him an offer and two, it may appear to Ebay I did
make him an offer which is violation ... I do not want to be kicked
off Ebay for something I have no involvement in,....also, he wrote the
same thing to the other bidders.... If I had wanted the item and was
willing to pay an outlandish amount for it, I'd be very upset! Of
course it is just paper and I'd "get over it" as I said in my own
words, but this practice of the same two people always doing that
because they want something and always making offers to bidders just
isn't fair is it? I mean come on, you list and item and tell people
to bid and in less than a day to go you've been watching it and want
to bid and what? They say "sorry, someone offered me something for it
I couldn't refuse". That's like dangling the proverbial carrot and
it's not really nice if you ask me.

If this happened to you three times on items that were something you
wanted, would you be upset? Now this is THEORETICAL please.... I am
not saying I wanted it as I said it reached 125 and I stopped my bid
and let it go without looking at it again....! I am saying I did bid
on it, had my limit, stopped there... but I COULD have wanted it that
badly.... and so could you and if someone you knew constantly
contacted the seller outside the auction and made a side deal and you
never got your items, would you not be just a bit perturbed?

So my problems were
1) being dragged into something that makes me appear I did something
wrong
2) someone doing something sneaky on the side without giving others
(and who knows cold have been me too if I'd wanted it bad enough)
3) if we don't follow any laws, rules and some morals/ethics, what are
we? Certainly whatever it is, it can't be good!

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:58:16 -0500, Chris Polubinski
wrote:

I may have quoted you the wrong section. I interpreted your original
message to mena that a bid was retracted by a bidder. But, if I
understand you correctly, all bids were cancelled by the seller and
the auction was ended early. If so, the following now apply:

Cancel Bids

In general, sellers should not cancel bids on their auctions.

- Legitimate reasons to cancel a bid include:
- A bidder contacts you to back out of the bid.
- You cannot verify the identity of the bidder after trying all
reasonable means of contact.


Ending Your Listing Early

Sometimes something goes wrong and you can't complete your listing as
planned. If needed, you can choose to end your listing before the
scheduled date. If there are bids on your item, you can cancel them.

Reasons for ending listings early include:
1. The item is no longer available for sale.
2. There was an error in the starting price or reserve amount.
3. There was an error in the listing.
4. The item was lost or broken.


The part that concerns you is #1 under ending an auction early. It's
a grey area. "The item is no longer for sale... because it has been
traded away or sold for a great deal of cash in an outside deal."
It's a vague statement that covers a multitude of sins.

As we have seen time and again, ebay exists to benefit the sellers,
not the buyers. Find an obvious forgery and notify the seller, you're
harrassing them. Buy an obvious forgery and contact ebay: you
should've been more careful about what you bid on.

Also note that neither of these actions contain any potential
penalties for the seller. They can cancel bids and end auctions at a
whim. Buyers can retract bids and have their accounts disabled.

And, the reason why all this happens is because the sellers pay money
to ebay in the form of auction fees. Buyers pay nothing. And thus,
ebay protects themselves by protecting their income.

The best advice I can offer you is best stated by you: Get over it.
It's just a signature on paper. It's not really insane to accept a
better offer when it's presented to you. It happens all the time.

Just curious, if you weren't bidding on it, how do you know that the
other bidders WEREN'T given an opportunity to match the offer?



On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:35:26 -0500, dahoov2 wrote:

Well it doesn't say anything here about side deals, but it's gotta be
a violation. I know the 12 hour rule doesn't apply so sad he did
this... I wasn't bidding anyway, but it really isn't fair to other
bidders who wanted the item. I understand they got a good trade
offer, but the seller didn't give opportunity to the other bidders to
see if they could match that. Also, if you want to trade, why the
heck sell on Ebay then... sheesh.

I know the seller. Good guy but I hate seeing greed rearing its ugly
head. Also, I am pretty sure I know who the proposer is and it's like
the 3rd time in recent times that they've contacted a seller and made
a deal and the bid was retracted on items I bid on. They don't want
me to get it that's for sure... It's all sickening though how people
are THAT obsessed and greedy! GET OVER IT. It's just a signature on
paper!

What gets me is not that the signature is something I can't have, but
that people are this insane!


On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:24:50 -0500, Chris Polubinski
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:29 -0500, dahoov2 wrote:

someone cancelled a bid because they got an offer too good to pass up.
What are the Ebay rules? From what I remembered it's grounds to be
kicked off is it not?


This is what ebay has to say on the subject:

Bid Retractions
Bid carefully - retractions are rarely allowed

When you are the winning bidder, you are obligated to pay the
high-bid price for the item. As a rule, retracting bids is not allowed
on eBay.

Remember that all bids on eBay are binding, except:
- Sales of real estate or businesses (see the Non-Binding Bid Policy)

- Sales of items that are prohibited by law or by eBay's User
Agreement


Exceptional Circumstances Only

There are, however, a few exceptional circumstances under which you
may retract a bid. These are if:

- You accidentally enter the wrong bid amount. For instance, you bid
$99.50 instead of $9.95.

Note: If this occurs, re-enter the correct bid amount immediately
after you retract your bid. If you do not place another bid, the
retraction will be in violation of eBay's policy and could result in
your suspension.

- The description of an item you have bid on has changed
significantly.

- You can't reach the seller. This means that you tried calling the
seller but his or her phone number doesn't work, or you have tried
emailing a message to the seller and it comes back undeliverable.


Timing Matters

There are special rules about retracting bids, depending on when you
originally placed the bid.

If you place a bid before the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract that bid before that last 12-hours, if your situation meets
the above description of exceptional circumstances. You will not be
allowed to retract that bid during the last 12-hours of the listing.

When you retract a bid before the last 12 hours of a listing: you will
eliminate all bids you have placed on that item. If you are correcting
a bidding error, you will have to bid again.

If you place a bid during the last 12-hours of the listing: You may
retract the bid only within one hour after placing the bid (and if
your situation meets eBay's exceptional circumstances description).

When you retract a bid within the last 12 hours of the listing: You
will eliminate only the most recent bid you placed. Bids you placed
prior to the last 12 hours will not be retracted.

If you are not allowed to retract your bid during the last 12-hours of
the listing, you may contact the seller to request that your bid be
canceled. The seller will have the discretion whether to cancel your
bid.


Accountability

Your total number of bid retractions in the past six months is
displayed in your feedback profile.

eBay will thoroughly investigate bid retractions. Abuse of this
feature may result in the suspension of your account. Bids retracted
within the last 24 hours of listing can be viewed as bid shielding,
which is a serious violation of our policy.