oly wrote:
On May 19, 7:21 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote:
On May 18, 9:32 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

...
On May 18, 7:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:

Bruce Remick wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...
oly wrote:
On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote:
In article ,
Frank Galikanokus wrote:

Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a
California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear
mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging
report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.).

Read
mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html

Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio
host of unethical behavior ...

It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for
a new irony meter ... mint just exploded!

--
Ken Barr Numismatics email:
P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com
San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards,
etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2
(no table)

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers'
wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out
of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently.

Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many
people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts
types.
If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat
government paper and all the shabby government promises, that
would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental
faculties.

Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two
usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the
past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I
pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself
against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin'

James

Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War
with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through
some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years.
These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging
for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of
our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature.

History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all
while we were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be
considered "fiat" money, since its value depends on what someone
other than I says it is. Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like
its looks, but I have yet to see a well-crafted scenario of what
would happen when push came to shove. If somebody decides his loaf
of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few indeed will eat.
The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his gold AND
his bread.

James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit
over the top. In that situation on hopes there are still police. If
not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money
would
be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions.

The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our
leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in
concrete terms is enough for the question of stability of prices
and a store of value to be discussed.

The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough
(from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). Inconveniently for an argument that we
should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame
that exceeds a normal lifetime. The case that it is a hedge
against a weakening currency is a case that much of the world
understands. Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than
some other currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or
Zimbabwe tend to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in
milder amounts, inflation can happen here.

My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble
those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot
and the CPI does not. Gold has done a somewhat better job of
tracking my expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a
Piper PA-18-150, new, cost about $5000; today a usable but
thoroughly used one costs about $80,000).

As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been
bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure.

My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. I have
sufficient cash for my needs. My theory is that a small part needs
to be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in
value in
a different way than paper money). Personally I prefer to keep some
coins and some Goerz Dagors. They certainly won't ward off bullets,
but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of
the various forms of colored paper I have. My broad theory about
the correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be
useful
in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that
5%) part of my savings.
============

In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes
worthless, one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled
water, and an AK-47 w/ammo.....plus of course any particular
Starbucks blend one just can't live without. That stock of gold
kept as an inflation hedge will be of little practical use unless
you really need a nostalgia fix. The process of "buying things"
will be a fond memory. Fortunately, there's a happy ending to this
movie. ;)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile.
You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he
correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been
managed over longer than one person's lifetime.

It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no
alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in
fixed ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the
whole world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as
distinctly.

Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's
pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop.

You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or
revolution. Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side
of a period of anarchy to the other side when normality returns.
Silver would be a better tool during the bad times, but yes,
actually having stored goods for personal use or barter would be
valuable too.

Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any
better???

The ammunition shortages are being caused by irrational fears that
somehow the gummint is going to confiscate private firearms in the
near future (actually, shouldn't we wonder why it hasn't happened
already, since these fears were first expressed back in '07?), these
fears, of course, being trumped up by the radio talkers. There's
just nothing quite like stoking the fires of fear and hate via
several hours a day output from the likes of Beck and Limbaugh, and
I know plenty of otherwise decent folks right here in North Lugburz
who have fallen under their sickening spell.

That said, your statement about not being able to use gold during a
collapse or revolution has merit. You really cannot predict the
course of such an event (viz. the French Revolution, one of
history's greatest and most ironic failures), so a resort to
survivalism might get you through. How many rolls of papier h will
it take to trade for your pound of jerky, mon bon voisin? And don't
get any funny ideas, 'cause I know karate.

James the Barterer- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Indeed, the French Revolution is probably THE guide for what could
happen in a "modern" "civilized" nation gone beserk. Flashing gold
during the French Revolution was a quick way to get a free shave by
the "National Razor".

They say that vendors sold "programs" of the names of those scheduled
to be guillotined each day to the crowd gathered to watch. I'll bet
the vendors didn't insist on anything other than assignats.

Nevertheless, I tend to think that silver dimes, quarters and half
dollars will function for the beef jerkey trade. My studies of the
German Hyperinflation 1919-1923 make me think that those who had
silver coins (and foreign notes and coins) didn't fare badly at all
during that period.

I balk at suggesting to you (or anyone), mon vieux, exactly what to do
because so many business/investment situations that I thought were
solid have bellied-up in the last three years. Things that I thought
were good also have done a great job of losing five-sixths of their
value with amazing consistency. Of course, most of the ones I thought
were crappy did not make it either, but my ability to identify the
good ones hasn't been stellar. Also, I strongly think that we will do
a "double-dip" recession in 2010-11.

I harbor no illusions that the current "recovery" is anything other than a
fool's rally. There are still way too many people who stand to gain
handsomely from another market drop. They have the wherewithal to bring it
about, and they won't wait until the Dow is anywhere near 14k, methinks.

James