On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:54:21 -0000, Oodles Of Noodles
wrote:


Why is the Celica a bad choice? snip

Early ones, I should have said...the later ones were bulletproof and
universally regarded as great cars.

My dad was captivated by the first Celica in '71, and it was a real
mess, as were all Toyotas of that era. Soft valves were the biggest
problem, as they were on his '73, requiring complete exhaust valve
replacement at 30K miles. But, they weren't done yet, as there was
too much aluminum between the exhaust valve seats and the coolant,
resulting in fried seats a short while later, despite the hardened
valves. So, another set of valves and this time, a new head with
modified casting and hardened seats. That fixed the problem, but
other problems, notably with the Nippon Denso electrics prevailed in
both cars. By around '75, all these problems were ironed out and
Toyota's bad reputation gained early on disappeared as people started
getting trouble free mileage out of them. It should be noted that it
wasn't just the 18R-C engine in the Celica that had this problem...ALL
Toyota engines in the early '70s weren't very good in terms of valve
durability. The same valve problem was notorious even in their "copy
cat" of the Chevy 235 Six in the Land Cruiser, as well as in the 2.0
and 2.4 litre 2M and 4M engines. It should be noted that, in spite of
all these engineering goofs, Toyota stood behind all their products,
and would give owners FREE repairs, even out of warranty. Ever hear
of GM, Ford or Chrysler doing that? No way, José.

Honda has similar problems with Nippon Denso electrics in their early
Civics. A shortage of phosphor bronze alloy, critical to making
reliable connectors and relay contacts, was in short supply in Japan
in the early '70s, and thus wiring harnesses, voltage regulators and
starter motor contactors were a continual source of trouble. By late
'75, ND had solved the problem with a new alloy, and ND electrics
became competitive with all US designs in reliability...no small feat,
considering the good designs from 1960 used by Chrysler in their
starters and alternators for 26 years. Again, Honda would back their
products, even though out of warranty, by offering free repairs to any
electrical problem for any owner of a '73 to '75 Civic. By mid-'75,
the electrical problems were history.

My '77 Accord had some little electrical problems, all relative to
phenolic circuit boards used in the small discrete electronic circuits
used in that car. The problem was cracked solder, something I took
care of myself with a 25 watt iron and about an hour's worth of labor,
so I never bothered the dealer about it. I was curious to find out
what was wrong! The two circuits that failed early on the Accord were
the seat belt warning light and buzzer timer and the electronic dash
light dimmer. They're still working perfectly today. Regarding the
magnetic voltage regulator and harness connectors, as well as the
starter contacts, they've been also as reliable as any US
counterparts.

My grandparents were with my dad when he got his Celica, and got one
of only 101 Toyota Crowns ever sold in the US. This car, although
highly thought of in Japan, was horrid on US roads. 4:11.1 rear end
with 14" rims had the engine spinning at an incredible 4500 RPM at 65
MPH! Toyota also copied GM's early "side gear" power steering unit
for the Crown, seen in GM cars from 1951 to '55. Slop galore, of
course, and the smallish Crown tended to handle like a '55 Buick
Super. The Crown was discontinued that year in US sales, and
worldwide shortly thereafter. However, they'd come back into the
"luxury sedan" market later with a far better product that would give
Detroit the ****s...the Cressida. Nissan, once they phased out their
tired 610 model, would eventually come back to the same market with
the top-selling Altima.

Once Toyota got their act together in the mid-'70s, they cam back with
a vengeance that the fat and lazy US auto management could not fight.
By the time your first Celica came out, they were worlds better a car
than anything the Big 3 could turn out in the same price and size
class. That's why what's left of the Big 3 is now teetering on
bankruptcy now while Toyota has taken their market away from them,
despite what Noodles says.