On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:33:27 GMT, Dik T. Winter wrote:

Here you come again with that grossly misgraded. If a coin is grossly
misgraded that only means that its monetary value is less than what it
is priced for. So what? If I buy a coin that I like and am willing
to pay the price, the grading is uninteresting to me, and whether I
pay the value in some book or something different is also uninteresting.
The coin is apparently interesting for the price at which it is offered.
I may shop and see whether a similar coin can be found at a lower price,
but that is just that. Also, when I do buy a fake, still I am out of
money value, but as a collector I might even not be interested. Of
course, with higher priced coins I would like to know that it is not
a fake, but those I buy only with a reputed dealer, and I trust his
confidence. As you trust your slabbing companies (except ACG
apparently).

Just to clarify, I trust the grades of PCGS, ANACS, NGC, and ICG as much
as those of a reputable dealer but not any more so. In either case I need
to also agree with the value of the coin before I would buy it. The
problem with overgraded or damaged coins is that it is really a type of
fraud, and certainly unethical. I can place a large add and offer $50
whizzed or AU coins for $150 as select BU and make a killing. This kind
of crap still goes on today. Buying a coin in person can help avoid that
situation but not everyone can do this. The major grading companies also
help avoid this type of problem. Your MS63 Morgan might not be fantastic
but it sure as hexk will have original luster and not have been damaged by
a wire brush. Cheating the unsuspecting, whetehr through overgrading or
selling outright fakes is wrong. Sure we sould all be experts but that
dosen't really excuse the practice.

And here it is again: "long term value", meaning monetary value. I am
in coin collecting *not* for long term monetary value, I am even not
interested in that part. I buy because I like a coin and I am willing
to pay the price. I am completely uninterested whether it will go
upwards through the roof or downwards through the bottom a few years
from now. I have bought quite a few sealed packages of coins from
mints. They are all not longer in their package, because in it they
would not fit in the manner in which I store my coins. Obviously the
price is lowered by that, but that is not interesting to me. As Colin,
if and when I ever buy a slabbed coin, it will go out of its slab
almost immediately. I want to look at the coins assembled together in
a way *I* like.

In this you are probably like many collectors here and unlike some
others. Some people just want to get the best "deal".

Why would a collector want to maximise what he can get in terms of value?
So he can buy more coins for the same amount of money. If you go an pay
$200 the first time you see a coin you like and then later find out it
averages $150, you have lost $50 you could be spending on more coins

A true collector wants to obtain the largest number of objects he
collects
for what he is willing to spend. If you want to maximise in terms of
value, you are only investing, not collecting.

There is no difference. Why wouldn't I want to buy 3 coins worth $300 for
$300 rather than 2 coins worth $200 for $300. I get more coins and should
I trade or sell later I can get more of something else I like. Not
wanting to be cheated is just common sense.

It is just this last group (the investors) that make it so difficult for
those who are only collectors. (And they are mostly in it for gold and
silver anyway. Anything that will bring more than the intrinsic value
is welcome.)

Truly investing in coins is foolhardy

In a similar vein I look at the US Hobby Protection Act. This does not
protect the ordinary collector, it does protect those that invest in
some collectors hobby. The ordinary collector would either know he
has a fake, or not know it, but it would not bother him. If he cares
about fakes, he wil go to reputed dealers that guarantee it is not a
fake, but they, too, can be wrong.

It protects no one because it is never enforced.

Moreover, the plethora of grades in the US is quite disturbing. Nobody
in their right mind (except dealers) would be able to really distinguish
between so many grades (and apparently even experts disagree). Still a
one point difference can mean a huge difference in value. It is
completely
intangible for the ordinary collector, especially the price jump. Why
would
a Morgan Dollar of some year in MS65 bring $800 and one in MS66, $11,000?
The collector will not see the difference. (You may say that you can see
the difference through a microscope, but I do not look at my collection
through a microscope. Why would I?)

Many people who would consider themselves quite sane do pay these prices.
The differences in some grades are not as hard to see when you really
study a series as you might imply. Truly, the 1 point jumps with vast
price differences are perplexing but perhaps these buyers are simply more
adept and informed than you or I.