Opinions, please: What is a 1981 Type II Proof Set? Do all coins need to be?
 

OK, my haste and naivete' may have gotten the better of me once again.
I recently purchased a "1981 Type II Proof Set" from a collector by
mail. I received the set only to discover that all the coins EXCEPT
the SBA were Type II, and the SBA was clearly a Type I.

When I brought this up to the seller, he remarked that the set was
considered Type II if any of the coins were Type II.

I replied to him that since the value of the individual coins appears
to be unevenly weighted, and that the coin with the highest value was
a Type I, the overall valuation of the set should be adjusted
accordingly.

Now, I may have to "eat" this one, and if I do, it will be my
"numismatic tuition" for the year.

My 1979 Type II Set has all 6 coins that are Type II, which I consider
"a set". By my seller's defintion, there could be as many as 6! (6
factorial) or 720 different kinds of Type II sets, each with a
different valuation.

I hope you've been able to stay with me through these ramblings. So
the questions is:

In order for a Type II Proof set to really be "a set", do all 6 coins
need to be Type II.

I'm just trying to determine whether this was my own ignorance (highly
possible), failure to fully disclose the item's condition (possible,
but in my seller's mind, I believe that he believes he was making a
full disclosure), or something in between.

Thanks for your opinions.

DaiLun

P.S. We have requested a definition from the ANA on what constitutes
a Type II "SET", and seller has offered to take the set in and refund
my money.

Dai Lun wrote:
When I brought this up to the seller, he remarked that the set was
considered Type II if any of the coins were Type II.

I think that's a ridiculous definition. For a set to be considered a
"Type II Set", *all* coins must be Type II. Similarly, a "Type I Set"
would have all Type I coins. Anything with mixed types would just be a
year set, with no regard to typeness.

--
Bob

I think that's a ridiculous definition. For a set to be considered a
"Type II Set", *all* coins must be Type II. Similarly, a "Type I Set"
would have all Type I coins. Anything with mixed types would just be a
year set, with no regard to typeness.


I agree, It does sound pretty ridiculous to have mixed types of coins in one
set, then call it a full type set set.
By those standards I could gather up say 10 coins from any given year, 9 of
them being mint state uncirculated coins and 1 being a proof coin, And then
advertise it for sale as a
"Proof SET" because afterall, its got one proof coin in it.
If I were you I'd raise some hell with that seller, It's nothing less than
fraud in my opinion.
But incase I'm wrong, better wait to see what some others say on it.
Steve

In article , "Bob Flaminio"
writes:


Dai Lun wrote:
When I brought this up to the seller, he remarked that the set was
considered Type II if any of the coins were Type II.

I think that's a ridiculous definition. For a set to be considered a
"Type II Set", *all* coins must be Type II. Similarly, a "Type I Set"
would have all Type I coins. Anything with mixed types would just be a
year set, with no regard to typeness.


Of course, Bob's reply is exactly right. For him to describe a 6 coin set with
the most valuable coin being a type one is clearly misleading, if not outright
fraud. I HAVE had dealers try to convince me of exactly what your seller is
doing. However, they declined to PURCHASE additional such sets without knowing
the specific distribution of type 2 and type 1 coins. At that point, our
negotiations ceased as I knew they were trying to defraud me. Nevertheless, I
have run into dealers who clearly did not understand and were open to my
explanation that "mixed" sets must be valued on the individual coin prices.

You can sell Mercury dime sets WITHOUT the 16d, but failing to disclose that
the set lacks the key date is another matter. I've talked to dealers who
understood the Mercury dime analogy, but did not understand why I needed to buy
"type 2" 1981 proof sets the same way. Usually, after the explanation, I'd buy
the sets for the "individual" coin prices.

Your seller should refund your money and rerun the auction with a more complete
description...and, in the future, YOU will ask questions before buying.

One additional point is that the sum of the individual coin prices in this set
is less than the complete set as some collectors put a premium on complete sets
in the
original gov't holders. I've also had sellers try to sell repackaged sets for
the greysheet "bid" price. Usually, but not always, these people, too need to
have the facts explained to them and most sellers I've encountered are
reasonable when provided with the pricing facts on this set.

dondi3




DONDI enterprises. BUY, SELL, TRADE. RARE COINS & PRECIOUS METALS
Member COINNET, CSNS, ANA, INA, MOON, ILNA.

i think you shoul stay ciear of that dealer,,,
can you say who it was ???

There are lots of mixed type 1 and type 2 1981 proof sets. A type 2
set by convention must contain only type 2 coins. Mixed sets
typically sell for the combined value of the coins in the set and with
a type 1 SBA that won't be a lot. Type 2 sets are scarce enogh that
there is usually about a 20% premium to the combined value of the
coins in the set.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:35:37 -0600 (CST),
(Larry Larry) wrote:

i think you shoul stay ciear of that dealer,,,
can you say who it was ???

Just some closure on this. First, thanks to all who responded. It
was a private seller.

He was good about it and made a full refund.

It was a learning experience for both of us.

Thanks again to all.

DaiLUn