All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

Hi,

As an interim step to total electronicization of money I believe that
2D barcodes on banknotes should uniquely sign the note, so any imaging
network device could tell if the bit of paper was a duplicate, and help
tracking. A non-networked device should be able to check the
signature, but not do real-time tracking. If your money was stolen you
should be able to receive your stolen property when it was handed into
a bank. (Or is ownership of banknotes lost upon theft? - uk.legal)

2D barcode technology is well developed and used for example in
franking machines. There may be reasons why not to introduce the
technology such as to let dollar bills be the currency of corruption.

Dave.

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

Dave wrote:
Hi,

As an interim step to total electronicization of money I believe that
2D barcodes on banknotes should uniquely sign the note, so any imaging
network device could tell if the bit of paper was a duplicate, and help
tracking. A non-networked device should be able to check the
signature, but not do real-time tracking. If your money was stolen you
should be able to receive your stolen property when it was handed into
a bank. (Or is ownership of banknotes lost upon theft? - uk.legal)

2D barcode technology is well developed and used for example in
franking machines. There may be reasons why not to introduce the
technology such as to let dollar bills be the currency of corruption.

Dave.
Sorry, I just thought that RDIF tags could have a similar function- if
they could be given a unique signiature.

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

As an interim step to total electronicization of money I believe that
2D barcodes on banknotes should uniquely sign the note, so any imaging
network device could tell if the bit of paper was a duplicate, and help
tracking. A non-networked device should be able to check the
signature, but not do real-time tracking. If your money was stolen you
should be able to receive your stolen property when it was handed into
a bank. (Or is ownership of banknotes lost upon theft? - uk.legal)


In principle, there is nothing to stop you writing down the serial nos of
all your bank notes in case they are stolen. Nobody does, though. Whilst
bar codes would make it easier, I am sure that OCR technology can easily
cope with reading existing serial nos.

There are good reasons for not confiscating money from an innocent end user
simply because the serial no is on a list of stolen notes. There are still
nearly 30 million pounds of stolen notes missing from the big robbery in
Essex a few months go, and that's just one robbery. The grand total must be
much higher. Commerce would grind to a halt if everybody had to check each
note against a database of stolen ones.

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

In message , GB
wrote

There are good reasons for not confiscating money from an innocent end user
simply because the serial no is on a list of stolen notes. There are still
nearly 30 million pounds of stolen notes missing from the big robbery in
Essex a few months go, and that's just one robbery. The grand total must be
much higher. Commerce would grind to a halt if everybody had to check each
note against a database of stolen ones.


How would the general public check notes given in change, or from
cashback transactions, or even from a bank's cash machine?

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

GB wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,


In principle, there is nothing to stop you writing down the serial nos of
all your bank notes in case they are stolen. Nobody does, though. Whilst
bar codes would make it easier, I am sure that OCR technology can easily
cope with reading existing serial nos.
Making up a serial number is a whole load easier, as far as I know,
than forging a signed, encrypted barcode. The post is also about
forgery.

There are good reasons for not confiscating money from an innocent end user
simply because the serial no is on a list of stolen notes.
So if I got 5K in cash to buy a car at an auction, got the serial
numbers, and was robbed, if the money turned up at a bank 3 months
later I would have lost ownership? This doesn't seem right, but then
again case law is bad law IHMO. I thought that victims (or relatives
of victims) of the Nazis got their art works back after proving
ownership even if the work was bought in good faith.

Commerce would grind to a halt if everybody had to check each
note against a database of stolen ones.
This is done for many card transactions, even with a low transaction
value.

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...

GB wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,


In principle, there is nothing to stop you writing down the serial nos of
all your bank notes in case they are stolen. Nobody does, though. Whilst
bar codes would make it easier, I am sure that OCR technology can easily
cope with reading existing serial nos.
Making up a serial number is a whole load easier, as far as I know,
than forging a signed, encrypted barcode. The post is also about
forgery.

Oh, I'm sorry, I see what you mean now. Something like a 400 digit bar code,
with a digital signature. At standard bar code sizes, 400 digits would take
up the whole note, but I guess that could be got around.



There are good reasons for not confiscating money from an innocent end
user
simply because the serial no is on a list of stolen notes.
So if I got 5K in cash to buy a car at an auction, got the serial
numbers, and was robbed, if the money turned up at a bank 3 months
later I would have lost ownership? This doesn't seem right, but then
again case law is bad law IHMO. I thought that victims (or relatives
of victims) of the Nazis got their art works back after proving
ownership even if the work was bought in good faith.

I think that's the principle of the law at the moment. Unless the goods were
bought in 'market overt' they have to be returned to the true owner. So, in
principle, that should apply to bank notes too. I just think that with the
present system it would make life intolerable.

In principle, everyone could carry a little bank note scanner that checks
the serial numbers of every note they receive, but that's also a problem.



Commerce would grind to a halt if everybody had to check each
note against a database of stolen ones.
This is done for many card transactions, even with a low transaction
value.


There's a difference though. The card transaction has to involve a computer
operation anyway, so the cardholder's account can be debited. Checking
against a list of stolen cards does not increase the transaction time. If
you gave the bus driver a 5 pound note and he had to check that against his
database of stolen notes that would significantly add to the journey time. I
guess that's one reaon why they don't take credit cards at the moment.

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

GB wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...

GB wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,


In principle, there is nothing to stop you writing down the serial nos of
all your bank notes in case they are stolen. Nobody does, though. Whilst
bar codes would make it easier, I am sure that OCR technology can easily
cope with reading existing serial nos.
Making up a serial number is a whole load easier, as far as I know,
than forging a signed, encrypted barcode. The post is also about
forgery.

Oh, I'm sorry, I see what you mean now. Something like a 400 digit bar code,
with a digital signature. At standard bar code sizes, 400 digits would take
up the whole note, but I guess that could be got around.

Apparently PDF417 can store 500 characters per square inch (I'm not an
expert in this area, though)

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

John Boyle wrote:
In message .com, Dave
writes
So if I got 5K in cash to buy a car at an auction, got the serial
numbers, and was robbed, if the money turned up at a bank 3 months
later I would have lost ownership?

In many respect bank notes are like bills of exchange in which title
passes by delivery. A subsequent holder of the note would obtain good
title especially if he had given value for it.
This doesn't seem right,
My point was that the title may have been obtained illegally (e.g.
street robbery), so the original holder should retain title. It sounds
like an essay for a law student.

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

Alan wrote:
In message , GB
wrote

There are good reasons for not confiscating money from an innocent end
user
simply because the serial no is on a list of stolen notes. There are
still
nearly 30 million pounds of stolen notes missing from the big robbery in
Essex a few months go, and that's just one robbery. The grand total
must be
much higher. Commerce would grind to a halt if everybody had to check
each
note against a database of stolen ones.


How would the general public check notes given in change, or from
cashback transactions, or even from a bank's cash machine?

http://www.wheresgeorge.com?

;-)

--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________

All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
 

The ECB are looking into RFID, I think it should have been in place by now.

However, given the growth in credit and debit card transactions, which have
overtaken cash payments in the UK, is there much point? Banks dislike cash,
there are security risks, reserve issues and the FRB system leaves them
exposed to theoretical runs and credit crunches. The banks love the ability
to generate liquidity for credit card transactions and all the associated
merchant fees.

Does paper money have much of a future? Enplanting notes with RFID chips is
an obvious bridge technology, government would certainly like to track all
possible transactions.