Estie "Bill Signer" question
 

I've been working my way through the first issue of "Stylus"
since it showed up. Today, I was reading the article on pens of
President Kennedy. A few sentences in the article, along with one
of the pictures, were intriguing (to me, anyhow :0).

The author, John Loring, states:

"This is an Esterbrook desk pen with a black nib holder and a
clear plastic taper imprinted 'The President -- The White House'.
The pen appears to be a dip pen, but the black nib holder
assembly house a feed, so technically, it is a fountain pen with
limited ink-storage capacity." (pg. 72)

On the bottom of pg. 69, there is a photo of five of these pens.
A few have rotated just enough so that the combs of the feeds are
barely visible.

From the quote, above, I wondered if the pen couldn't be an
Estie Dip-Less. The nibs in the photos looked like Renew Points
to me, but I've never seen a Dip-Less in person. However from
illustrations in the couple of Estie catalogs I've seen, combs on
the feed would not be visible on a Dip-Less pen, at least not at
the slight amount of rotation of the pens in the photo.

If they are Renew Points, I can't see how the pen would hold any
quantity of ink based on the photo, which leads me to think the
pen would have been used as a dip pen. After all, how much ink
does an FP need to hold if you're going to sign your name once,
then give the pen away as a commemoration?

Anybody have an idea about this? Enquiring minds want to know.

Mark Z.
who doesn't even want to think about getting into what is
"technically" a fountain pen ;0)

mz wrote:


"This is an Esterbrook desk pen with a black nib holder and a
clear plastic taper imprinted 'The President -- The White House'.
The pen appears to be a dip pen, but the black nib holder
assembly house a feed, so technically, it is a fountain pen with
limited ink-storage capacity." (pg. 72)

On the bottom of pg. 69, there is a photo of five of these pens.
A few have rotated just enough so that the combs of the feeds are
barely visible.

From the quote, above, I wondered if the pen couldn't be an
Estie Dip-Less. The nibs in the photos looked like Renew Points
to me, but I've never seen a Dip-Less in person. However from
illustrations in the couple of Estie catalogs I've seen, combs on
the feed would not be visible on a Dip-Less pen, at least not at
the slight amount of rotation of the pens in the photo.

If they are Renew Points, I can't see how the pen would hold any
quantity of ink based on the photo, which leads me to think the
pen would have been used as a dip pen. After all, how much ink
does an FP need to hold if you're going to sign your name once,
then give the pen away as a commemoration?

Anybody have an idea about this? Enquiring minds want to know.

All Esterbrook dip pens held at least enough ink for several lines, more
usually more than a page of normal writing. these are not "dip" nibs in
terms of standard brass or steel nibs used with no feed at all. When a
feed is added the feed holds enough ink for 100 or more average words
per dip. In fact the average is, or was claimed to be about 300 words
per dip.

Estie Renew points are the standard nib Esterbrook used in all their dip
pen sets including the so called Dip-Less style, which just meant a pen
that is, uhh dipped less due to the feed. Its still a dip pen.

Estie was still selling standard dip NIBS at the time for use in pen
holders without feeds but thats another thing entirely. No feed, no
writing "tip" at all on most of those styles and ink capacity ranged
from a word or two to a line or two at most on average. These weren't
used by the White House since WW2 or so as far as I know. Frank

mz wrote:


Here's what I really wanted to know: Did those Estie "Bill
Signers" use Renew Points or Dip-Less points and feeds?

They are the same thing. The pen holder and base were the "dip-less"
items, not the nib and feed. At some point Estie may have applied
different lables to the nibs and feeds but its still the same thing and
interchangable via the same screw threads. Depending on when made (not
the name used) the feed may or may not have had more or less visible
combs. Frank

mz wrote:


Thanks, Frank. Just showing my inexperience, I guess. I thought
they were different because the nib and feed of the Dip-Less
could be removed from the unit that screwed into the section, so
the nib alone could be replaced with the same feed and fitted
back into the same unit, while the nib and feed of the Renew
Points were integral to the unit (like modern Pelikans),
requiring the entire unit to be replaced when changing nibs.

You still have it wrong. They are the SAME thing. There is NO
difference. They are never supposed to be removed from the feed or
collar that holds the feed and nib together as a unit. Of course it is
possible to do so regardless of the design.

One more time--there is no such thing as a Dip-Less nib and a Renew nib
in terms of any difference. It is one and exactly the same renewable
screw in combination nib and feed unit assembly.

The feed of a Dip-Less set is never supposed to be removed except as
part of the standard Esterbrook unscrewable nib unit which, once again,
is exactly the same unit used in their fountain pens. Frank

mz wrote:


Thanks, Frank. Just showing my inexperience, I guess. I thought
they were different because the nib and feed of the Dip-Less
could be removed from the unit that screwed into the section, so
the nib alone could be replaced with the same feed and fitted
back into the same unit, while the nib and feed of the Renew
Points were integral to the unit (like modern Pelikans),
requiring the entire unit to be replaced when changing nibs.

You still have it wrong. They are the SAME thing. There is NO
difference. They are never supposed to be removed from the feed or
collar that holds the feed and nib together as a unit. Of course it is
possible to do so regardless of the design.

One more time--there is no such thing as a Dip-Less nib and a Renew nib
in terms of any difference. It is one and exactly the same renewable
screw in combination nib and feed unit assembly.

The feed of a Dip-Less set is never supposed to be removed except as
part of the standard Esterbrook unscrewable nib unit which, once again,
is exactly the same unit used in their fountain pens. Frank

mz wrote:
... the nib alone could be replaced with the same feed and fitted
back into the same unit, while the nib and feed of the Renew
Points were integral to the unit (like modern Pelikans),
requiring the entire unit to be replaced when changing nibs.

Actually, it's quite simple to pop a Pelikan nib out of a modern Pelikan
nib/feed assembly. The nib/feed assembly consists of three pieces: feed,
feed ring, and nib.... that's it. The feed ring is friction fit over
the nib and around the feed, thus holding those two pieces together.
Unscrew the nib/feed assembly and use a knock-out block to separate the
feed ring and feeder thus freeing the nib. --- B