Europeans are Slow
 

To see the brilliance of slabbing. No more pewter Thalers or hammered
pennies made by Artie next door. When will they learn?

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:47:25 -0600, Jorg Lueke
wrote:

To see the brilliance of slabbing. No more pewter Thalers or hammered
pennies made by Artie next door. When will they learn?

I personally can't see the attraction of slabbing coins.

Australia had a company that tried it, and they were not successful.

I hope this stays that way.

I will be posting some articles form Australian Coin Review on the
Aussie viewpoint on slabbing in the near future.

Needless to say most were not all that complimentary.

Colin Kynoch

Colin Kynoch wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:47:25 -0600, Jorg Lueke
wrote:

To see the brilliance of slabbing. No more pewter Thalers or hammered
pennies made by Artie next door. When will they learn?


I've come across some slabbed coins from America that have filtered
across, i don't think it's a bad idea as such. (It gets bad when
people start paying stupid prices from one grade to another such as
MS66 MS67 in my opinion. To me it's UNC whichever grade it is and i'd
sell it for the same price).

Anyhow i dislike the idea of slabbing in general because i'm an old
fashioned type that thinks if you can't hold the coin in your hands
then what's the point? You're not holding history your holding a
capsule of plastic with a bit of history in it.

That and the coin won't fit in the cabinate if it's in a slab.

But they can look very nicely framed in a slab. I dunno i like the
idea that it keeps the coin safe and accumulating a complete set in
all the same slabs makes a nice standardised collection. I just don't
fancy paying for the plastic and not the coin. (So probably a negative
feeling from me here!)

Sylvester.

Jorg Lueke wrote:

To see the brilliance of slabbing. No more pewter Thalers or hammered
pennies made by Artie next door. When will they learn?

Europeans are slow?

So then, are you hereby making an apology to ACG for ever doubting the
brilliance of their products and services?....and PCI for following in
their footsteps? or are you suggesting that you need to be a little more
discriminating with your `the brilliance of slabbing' generality. We
europeans have (so far) successfully avoided the absolute mess that is
3rd party grading (vested interest)in the United States, and you call us
europeans slow...hah!!

For what it is worth I have a growing collection of `slabs' from the US
that are mis graded, mis attributed (ie downright `wrong') to help
remind me not to get caught up in the apparent swell from Left Pondia.
None of them are ACG by the way. I don't have one with a counterfeit mis
attributed as being the real thing as yet, but i'm aware that they
exist...and i'm looking. :-)

Ian

"Ian" wrote in message
news:vR6Tb.3355$Gh3.30774319@news- Europeans are slow?

So then, are you hereby making an apology to ACG for ever doubting the
brilliance of their products and services?....and PCI for following in
their footsteps? or are you suggesting that you need to be a little more
discriminating with your `the brilliance of slabbing' generality. We
europeans have (so far) successfully avoided the absolute mess that is
3rd party grading (vested interest)in the United States, and you call us
europeans slow...hah!!

For what it is worth I have a growing collection of `slabs' from the US
that are mis graded, mis attributed (ie downright `wrong') to help
remind me not to get caught up in the apparent swell from Left Pondia.
None of them are ACG by the way. I don't have one with a counterfeit mis
attributed as being the real thing as yet, but i'm aware that they
exist...and i'm looking. :-)

Ian
Something has to be said for being able to grade a coin yourself instead of
relying on some dope in some two bit plastic tombing company. Slabs are
$#!+. Period. I have three coins in slabs, and only don't take them out
because I do not want to damage the coins in the process of removing them.

Dave



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On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:06:35 GMT, Ian wrote:

Jorg Lueke wrote:

To see the brilliance of slabbing. No more pewter Thalers or hammered
pennies made by Artie next door. When will they learn?

Europeans are slow?

So then, are you hereby making an apology to ACG for ever doubting the
brilliance of their products and services?....and PCI for following in
their footsteps? or are you suggesting that you need to be a little more
discriminating with your `the brilliance of slabbing' generality. We
europeans have (so far) successfully avoided the absolute mess that is
3rd party grading (vested interest)in the United States, and you call us
europeans slow...hah!!

For what it is worth I have a growing collection of `slabs' from the US
that are mis graded, mis attributed (ie downright `wrong') to help
remind me not to get caught up in the apparent swell from Left Pondia.
None of them are ACG by the way. I don't have one with a counterfeit mis
attributed as being the real thing as yet, but i'm aware that they
exist...and i'm looking. :-)

Ian

No, actually I would think that given the past 15-20 years of experience
you guys could figure out how to do it right by taking the good and
leaving the bad. I am no fan some of the grading, but it is what people
here want. I do think the authentication angle is very useful (from
PCGS,ANACS, and NGC) and as the European market grows more casual
collectors will probably demand this type of protection sooner or later.
Heck, the kids growing up today might even go after MS-69 Euros at $2000 a
piece :-)

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:11:23 -0500, Scottishmoney
wrote:

Something has to be said for being able to grade a coin yourself instead
of
relying on some dope in some two bit plastic tombing company. Slabs are
$#!+. Period. I have three coins in slabs, and only don't take them out
because I do not want to damage the coins in the process of removing
them.

Dave

What about authentication, do you expect every collector to be able to do
this themselves as well?

On 1 Feb 2004 03:25:46 -0800, The Silver Jar...
wrote:




I've come across some slabbed coins from America that have filtered
across, i don't think it's a bad idea as such. (It gets bad when
people start paying stupid prices from one grade to another such as
MS66 MS67 in my opinion. To me it's UNC whichever grade it is and i'd
sell it for the same price).

I agree to a point, if you as the collector can tell the difference in
quality offering a suitable price makes sense. On the other hand, if you
are just buying the number on the slab then it is a waste of money.


Anyhow i dislike the idea of slabbing in general because i'm an old
fashioned type that thinks if you can't hold the coin in your hands
then what's the point? You're not holding history your holding a
capsule of plastic with a bit of history in it.

That and the coin won't fit in the cabinate if it's in a slab.

Those things are nice, but isn't it also nice to know the coin youb are
holding is real. Granted, this dosen't cover the more inexpensive coins
but there's plenty of European coinage out there that's quite pricey.


Sylvester.

Jorg Lueke wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:06:35 GMT, Ian wrote:

Jorg Lueke wrote:

To see the brilliance of slabbing. No more pewter Thalers or
hammered pennies made by Artie next door. When will they learn?


Europeans are slow?

So then, are you hereby making an apology to ACG for ever doubting the
brilliance of their products and services?....and PCI for following in
their footsteps? or are you suggesting that you need to be a little
more discriminating with your `the brilliance of slabbing' generality.
We europeans have (so far) successfully avoided the absolute mess that
is 3rd party grading (vested interest)in the United States, and you
call us europeans slow...hah!!

For what it is worth I have a growing collection of `slabs' from the
US that are mis graded, mis attributed (ie downright `wrong') to help
remind me not to get caught up in the apparent swell from Left Pondia.
None of them are ACG by the way. I don't have one with a counterfeit
mis attributed as being the real thing as yet, but i'm aware that they
exist...and i'm looking. :-)

Ian


No, actually I would think that given the past 15-20 years of experience
you guys could figure out how to do it right by taking the good and
leaving the bad. I am no fan some of the grading, but it is what people
here want. I do think the authentication angle is very useful (from
PCGS,ANACS, and NGC) and as the European market grows more casual
collectors will probably demand this type of protection sooner or
later. Heck, the kids growing up today might even go after MS-69 Euros
at $2000 a piece :-)



My dear Jorg, we HAVE figured out how to do it right, and we HAVE taken
the good and left the bad. :-) We keep the coins and discard the
collateral junk you guys call slabs (irrespective of name or insignia on
them).

It's at this point I take some delight in casually reminding you that
there have been coin collectors in europe long before the US was even a
twinkle in your Uncle Sam's eye, let alone it having any coins to play with.

Sadly, as you well know, the public doesn't necessarily get what the
public wants, but rather gets exactly what is `sold' to it as being in
the best interest.

The European market regenerates itself rather than `grows' (as in
`expansion'). There are thousands of `casual' collectors as in those
people who collect loose change or slightly more advanced. There are
virtually no `casual' collectors in investment terms, as there has never
been the `investment market' type hype over here (it just wouldn't wear
in any event). As such, different culture, different standards, and
different sensibilities.

One could easily argue that us yewrowpeens are not as gullible as you
'merkins. Besides as we all know, anything less than PR71 SD(that
is,SupaDupa)DCAM in a rose tinted acrylic slab isn't worth the
collecting as far as euros are concerned.

On that vein (colours) i'm truly surprised that PCGS and NGC haven't
cottoned on yet to the concept of tinted slabs. You could have green for
envy of the grades above; blue for being below the grade expected by the
owners; yellow for those who fear to use a `recognised' grading company;
grey to hide the fact that the coin has been dipped (or should I say
professionally `curated' ;-); oh yes, and charcoal grey to hide simple
defects like `should have been body bagged but dark grey says it all';
then of course there is also matt black for those coins /thingies that
should never again see the light of day; and of course, my tint of
choice....rose for the coins Ireally hope to be a better grade than
anyone else probably agrees with.

oh yes......quick, better slab that slab to preserve the grading
standard......before they go and change it YET AGAIN. (Now that would
never happen would it?) :^)

Ian

"Jorg Lueke" wrote in message
What about authentication, do you expect every collector to be able to do
this themselves as well?


Yes I do as a matter of fact, why trust someone else? If you can't
authenticate it, you shouldn't collect it. That is how I feel. Little
experience here, back in 1993 when I was in Hamburg, Germany I purchased a
Hamburg 20 Marks coin dated 1911. Look in your catalog of World coins, and
you will notice there is no such thing. Who do I blame for it, myself or
the dealer whom sold the counterfeit to me. I blame myself for not knowing
better. Now when I look at it I see the soft details of a cast coin. I
should have known better before parting with the 150 marks for it. Live and
learn. Now I do not buy stuff I have not researched well and cannot
determine if they are authentic or not. Also I looked for tooled coins, not
much of a problem with USA coins, but a real problem when you get into
medieval and early milled coins.

Dave


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